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#1 Old 6th May 2008 at 12:31 AM Last edited by sweetswami77 : 6th May 2008 at 7:44 PM. Reason: Solved, thanks to Hysterical Paroxysm and Porkypine!
Poly count--how much is too much?
Well, I finished the lamp mesh I was working on (thanks to Lethe_s and Pokedude), and I think it's looking quite nice.





But the poly count was way too high. So, I went back into Milkshape and adjusted the poly count as much as I could with the DirectX Mesh Tools slider without compromising the integrity of the mesh. That brought me down to 8700 from 10,000+. Of course, that wasn't enough, so I manually went in and started deleting vertices. That brings me to around 5400. Still high for a lamp, but I've deleted all the unnecessary vertices that I can without changing the shape of the mesh.

So, my question is this--is there anything else I can do to reduce poly count without changing the shape of the mesh? If not, will my mesh be rejected for upload with poly counts that high?
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#2 Old 6th May 2008 at 12:41 AM
That's really quite high for what it is... I'd honestly be surprised if you were actually needing all those polys - I bet you can model some things lower poly and it'll be okay... things like the drawer pulls, the base of the lamp, etc... Also bear in mind that anything underneath (like the bottom of the dresser or the underside of the base of the lamp) can be outright deleted as it's never going to show.

You might want to take a look at some similar Maxis items in-game... you might be surprised how low-poly certain items are despite looking nice in-game. This is mostly due to the fact that nobody is ever going to zoom in super close and see that certain things aren't perfectly rounded, or that a corner that might be beveled on a real item isn't actually beveled on yours.

5400 but looking very cute, you'd probably get a Changes Required PM asking you to lower it. Acceptable ranges per tile usually are from about 800-2000 but of course that's not a hard and fast rule (a single tile cube shouldn't be anywhere near that). I think it really would be worth lowering your count some where you can - if you can post up the actual mesh in .obj format you can probably get some people to take a look and suggest good areas where you can do so, without sacrificing the look of your mesh in-game.

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#3 Old 6th May 2008 at 2:12 AM
Thanks, HP!

I did like you suggested and cut out everything I absolutely didn't need, but I'm still at around 4400. I'm attaching the rar if you (or any other kind soul) would care to take a look at it. It looks odd in the preview because I haven't made a new UV map or texture for it.

Thanks so much!!
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File Type: rar Lamp Decor Vignette 1.rar (595.0 KB, 3 downloads) - View custom content
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
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#4 Old 6th May 2008 at 3:05 AM
Mkay, well, I'm taking a look and I'm still seeing quite a lot of hidden faces. The actual modeling looks pretty good and low poly, but there's some things you've forgotten to get rid of - the underside of the dresser, for one, and some of the undersides of the lower details on the dresser which you'll never get the camera low enough to notice are missing... The main thing adding needlessly to your poly count is a lot of end caps to your cylinders. The different nested cylinders that form the lamp base have a lot of hidden ends to the cylinders that you can just outright delete. Likewise with any bottoms on the hatboxes which don't show whatsoever, and the insides of the drawers. I bet you can get rid of a good 1000 polys easy, just removing anything left that isn't going to show. It'd still be a little bit on the high side, but it's also really cute, and if you can get rid of anything that isn't essential, it'd be much more reasonable and worth a slightly higher count than normal.

Also, the bottom of the lamp (the very bottom bit which touches the top of the dresser) has an extra row of polys that it doesn't need - you can just delete the bottom row and adjust the mapping to fit.

I find the way you've done the actual dresser kind of... strange, yet interesting... the use of stacked cube primitives to form all that detailed woodwork is actually quite a bit lower poly than if you'd connected each bit together poly by poly. It's... odd, but it works, and actually saves quite a bit on poly count.

It is way past my bedtime so I can't give you a cleaned up version now, but I can try to do so tomorrow if you don't get at it first. Probably best you do it yourself just to get the hang of cleaning stuff up like that, but I would certainly be happy to do so if you need a bit more help getting rid of those last few unneeded polys.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
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#5 Old 6th May 2008 at 3:41 AM Last edited by sweetswami77 : 6th May 2008 at 6:16 AM.
Odd, huh? I didn't know there was another way to do it. LOL! I'm such a noob.

I know what you mean about the vertices at the caps of the cylinders, but I tried removing those one by one, and each time I did, it would leave a gaping hole in my mesh. I don't mind doing the work myself, but I guess I'm not quite understanding what you mean by removing hidden faces. How do I do that without removing the vertices? I tried selecting them by 'face', but that deleted the vertices, too, and would invariably leave a huge part of my mesh missing.

Thanks for any help you can offer. ;o)

Edit: Okay, I figured out what I was doing wrong (didn't have ignore backfaces checked), and I was able to delete the bottom caps of the cylinders at the lamp base. That brings me to a poly count of 4032, but I still can't figure out how to select the bottom face of the dresser or the drawers without also selecting one of the sides along with it. Is there a way to select a face, and then deselect certain vertices?

I tell you, my brain is fried. Off to bed... Thanks for your help!
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#6 Old 6th May 2008 at 5:58 AM Last edited by porkypine : 6th May 2008 at 6:13 AM. Reason: Because I can't type worth a darn! :D
HI, I had some time so I took your mesh apart and looked at it. I was able to reduce the SHADE from 2708 down to 1640 just by removing all the hidden faces.

Here's just the sample-reduction.obj file if you want to look at it.

What I did. I removed the round box bottoms and I removed the high poly central lamp stem in 3 parts and replaced it with just one lamp stem, but, I reduced the number of points on the curve by about half and just stretched it out to full height and reduced the circumfrence at the top. You can see it if you look at it. In the game, most people won't notice it isn't as round as it would be with all the original polys, but it still looks round and tapered.

I left the object exploded so you can examine it and see what I did. Of course, you don't have to use it all, so I did not repack it into your mesh. Just open it in Milkshape. :D

Here's a pic so you can see the box bottoms that I removed. They aren't moveable in the game so why use polys for the bottoms? The same thing for the bottoms of your dresser molding edges. You can save a few polys by removing the ones not seen in the game. Keep the ones seen from the top downwards, and remove the ones that you would have to look up from floor level to see.
Screenshots
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File Type: rar sample-reduction2.rar (26.5 KB, 1 downloads) - View custom content

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Typo Queen
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#7 Old 6th May 2008 at 6:10 AM
Oh, On Milkshape in Select mode, click on FACE and then deselect the parts you don't want to delete and it will take out the middles but leave your exteriors intact. Experiment wiht the dresser bottoms on the sample I sent back to you, that way you don't have to worry about messing up your mesh. have fun!

Busy mashing meshes.
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#8 Old 6th May 2008 at 6:25 AM
Porkypine, thank you for your help! I was thinking that I was going to have to do a simpler redesign of the lamp base. I was fighting it because I didn't want to have to do another UV map, but since I'm going to have to anyway, I might as well take your suggestions and run with them.

I did figure out how to delete the bottom faces of the hat boxes and lamp base, but it didn't reduce the total poly count as significantly as I'd hoped. (I edited my previous post to explain that.) But it's late, and my eyes are crossing, so it's time for me to hit the hay. I'll look at your file first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks so much for looking into it!
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#9 Old 6th May 2008 at 5:56 PM
Okay, well I did as HP and Porkypine suggested and removed all the hidden faces I could. I also did a simplified redesign of the lamp base. That brings me down to 3123.

I wonder if anyone would care to take a look and see if there are any hidden faces I missed. I couldn't figure out how to isolate the bottom of the dresser or the drawers without also selecting the sides, so I didn't mess with those. If someone could explain how to do that, I would be most obliged.

Thanks everyone!
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: rar Lamp Decor Vignette 2.rar (578.9 KB, 2 downloads) - View custom content
Typo Queen
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#10 Old 6th May 2008 at 7:10 PM
HI. What you do in Milkshape is to select FACE and select all the bottom points. it will jump up the sides in red. Deselect the red sides, leaving just the bottom points in red. It will take out the bottom and leave the sides alone.

The way you constructed the dresser moldings will make it difficult for you to reduce their polys - but there aren't all that many there. Each side only has 2 triangles as it is so nothing to remove is left except teh inside portions.

The only thing you really have left to reduce is the number of faces on the dresser knobs and the round shape on your lamp post.

By the way. Nice dresser. I like the clutter up top. Are you making that photograph recolorable? :D

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#11 Old 6th May 2008 at 7:42 PM
Thanks, Porkypine! Yes, everything is recolorable--the dresser as the stand, and the lamp base, shade, photo, and hat boxes as the shade. Lethe_s was the one who suggested I configure it that way, and I'm pretty pleased with the result. Or, at least I will be when I get it remapped and retextured. ;o)

But I still have a question for you--you said to deselect the red sides, but how do I do that? Clicking on them deselects the bottom face, right clicking brings up a drop down menu. I'm sure it's the simplest thing in the world, and I'm going to feel like the world's biggest idiot when you tell me, but I'm completely stumped.

Anywho, I'm not that concerned about the dresser portion of the mesh. I figure it's pretty bare bones as it is besides the knobs (and I don't think I can reduce them anymore than I have without getting rid of them completely, which I don't want to do.) So, I guess I've reduced it as much as I can. I just hope it doesn't get rejected because the poly count is too high. If so, I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Thanks so much for your help! If it does get approved, I'll be sure to give all you guys the credit you deserve. ;o)
Instructor
#12 Old 6th May 2008 at 8:10 PM
Don't worry sweetswami77; your polycounts are still way below what is seen on many other sites and here.
Top Secret Researcher
#13 Old 6th May 2008 at 8:13 PM
As someone who re-colors, I personally would prefer that the knobs were part of the texture rather than part of the mesh. That gives a lot more flexibility in terms of giving the basic shape a dramatically different style and feel.

Just offering a different point of view.

You can find more of my creations at The Sorceress & Company
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#14 Old 6th May 2008 at 9:07 PM
Thanks, Buggybooz! I did notice that a lot of sites aren't terribly concerned about poly count, but I want to learn how to make my meshes as streamlined as possible. I figure it's a good habit to get into. ;o)

Bluetexasbonnie, you've given me something to think about. I guess I didn't consider what could be done to change the look of it beyond the picture I had in my head. I think I'll try taking off the knobs and seeing how it looks without. Thanks for the suggestion!
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#15 Old 6th May 2008 at 9:18 PM Last edited by sweetswami77 : 6th May 2008 at 9:26 PM. Reason: Added picture
Okay, Bluetexasbonnie, I did it, and you know what? I like it! I was worried that the texture alone was not going to give it enough shape, but I can hardly tell that I've deleted the knobs. Best of all, that brought my poly count down to 2197! Thanks so much!



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#16 Old 6th May 2008 at 10:49 PM
And I thought 2197 was good... Maylin went over my mesh with a fine tooth comb and got the poly count down to 840. 840!!!

And that was WITH the knobs. Now that I've decided to ditch those (thanks, BTB!), the count is...

Are you ready for this?

598!!!!!

Thank you SO much, Maylin! You have been an outstanding help. Now if I'm rejected, I only have myself to blame. ;o)
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#17 Old 6th May 2008 at 11:53 PM
I -sincerely- doubt you'll get rejected as long as you have nice in-game screenshots and upload the right files.

It is wonderful to see a new mesh creator working so hard to do things right, taking suggestions, recognizing issues, and really doing everything necessary to not only create but to create well. It's very, very nice to see someone who takes pride in doing a good job and is willing to put forth the effort to really do things nice and proper.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Retired Duck
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#18 Old 7th May 2008 at 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HystericalParoxysm
It is wonderful to see a new mesh creator working so hard to do things right, taking suggestions, recognizing issues, and really doing everything necessary to not only create but to create well. It's very, very nice to see someone who takes pride in doing a good job and is willing to put forth the effort to really do things nice and proper.


What she said! And that's a spectacular result - from several thousand down to 598!
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#19 Old 7th May 2008 at 1:40 AM Last edited by sweetswami77 : 7th May 2008 at 1:45 AM.
Thanks, guys! I owe it all to all of you, though. Everyone is so helpful. I can't thank you all enough.

Oh, and just for comparison...check out the finished product!





Yay!!

I'm planning on doing a whole furniture suite to match, and will be uploading it all as a set. Keep your fingers crossed that I can keep those poly counts low! ;o)
Top Secret Researcher
#20 Old 7th May 2008 at 2:47 AM
I'm looking forward to it. It looks wonderful.

You can find more of my creations at The Sorceress & Company
Typo Queen
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#21 Old 8th May 2008 at 11:35 PM
Now I wanna see what Maylin did... upload the mesh!

Busy mashing meshes.
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#22 Old 9th May 2008 at 12:32 AM
Patience, grasshopper. I should be done with the set in the next couple of days, and then you can download everything! ;o)
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