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Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#26 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:26 PM
"1) Adding color options to, let's say, the good ol' Bella Squared;"

It works well for objects that have one material applied, but not completely on the ones with multiple materials applied like the sunflower.

"3) using again Object workshop on the same original Bella Squared painting (pretending to be another user...) and adding a new color for it;"

Shouldn't blow up your computer. Should produce somewhat unpredictable results because the game may choose a different instance of the GMND each time it loads. Also may show multiple instances of the default texture, one for each base MMAT created. Will definitely require more hard disk space and files than is needed to get the same number of texture options.

"5) If everything works fine, I'll delete the new decors one by one to see what happens."

When you delete them all the game will revert to the original default, although you'll still have 2 GMND files floating around from the ones you deleted. That's a test I tried before. But as we learned last night, if we install the MMAT to the GAMES folder somewhere, and only the GMND in the downloads, this prevents the default from ever being deleted, so you'll never lose the option for multiple textures on it. He's got Object Workshop installing those as described by default, which is very good.

The MMAT files produces also have an extra MMAT in the package, which I'm sure is just an error.

I'm not making a meaningless point, here. It's not a good idea to have 50 GMND files for Bella Squared. Even if it does not break the game, it's redundant, takes the game longer to load, wastes disk space and bandwidth, and exponentially increases the chances of people removing all the texture options for Expensive Stove when they try to install new texture options they downloaded for Bella Squared.

RG
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Test Subject
#27 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:29 PM
Ah ok, sorry for the mistake then, RGiles. I now understand what you are talking about.

As for the poster, don't worry, it was just for a test, and I don't want to release anything new until I know its bulletproof (in which case I believe Pinhead's tutorial is, cause I released a couple of objects - I'd hate to mess up someone's game...it's just too much of a burden if you catch my drift )
Instructor
#28 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:29 PM
Oh gosh, I sure don't need the game to take longer to load. I'm afraid my 4+GB of custom clothes, hair and makeup already takes quite long enough. :o I keep meaning to go through all the stuff and prune some out but I'm lazy.
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#29 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Quaxi
Oh and RGile, I didn't want to Ignore your suggestion but I simply wasn't aware of this Thread so please everyone if you have important Suggestions please send me a PM That's the only way to make sure I know about it.

I'm so glad to see you, Quaxi. No, I am really proud to have been given credit. I just saw the potential problems and got scared people will start distrubuting things and they'd be getting mad at me... same way Pinhead get scared about people blaming him for errors that might be caused by following his tutorial.

The new tool is working really well for objects that have one MATD, but doesn't include them all for objects that have more than one (plants with vases, all of the stairs). Other than that one exception, every object I tried with it works perfectly. So it's an excellent start. Thank you for working on this so fast.

@numenor: I would hardly even have guessed that english isn't your first language. I think you write it at least as well as I do.

RG
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#30 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:34 PM
@Motoki,

I sure would like to be able to go through and delete some of the ORIGINAL clothes which I will never use. Some of that stuff is is just unbearable to me.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#31 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RGiles
"He's got Object Workshop installing those as described by default, which is very good.

The MMAT files produces also have an extra MMAT in the package, which I'm sure is just an error.

I'm not making a meaningless point, here. It's not a good idea to have 50 GMND files for Bella Squared. Even if it does not break the game, it's redundant, takes the game longer to load, wastes disk space and bandwidth, and exponentially increases the chances of people removing all the texture options for Expensive Stove when they try to install new texture options they downloaded for Bella Squared.

RG


So if I want to share my new Bella Squared I have to zip the MMAT from the game folder along with the GMND from DL folder... This bring us back to the necessity to have a unique large MMAT package, holding information on all 1-color objects, otherwise the MMAT I would download from other users will conflict with the others residing in the game folder...
For the rest (loading time, disk space, etc) I agree 100%
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#32 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:43 PM
Yes, the packaging would need 2 files from different folders, and add on to the your file with the new texture.

And then people would need to actually read the instructions on where to put their new downloaded files.
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#33 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:49 PM
The one thing I keep forgetting to mention about this little scheme of making just the 2 base packages for all extended MMAT and GMND files... we'd also need it to create text lists or internal Name Maps for which item gets assigned to which Group, Instance and so on. If we didn't have that, we'd have to cry.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#34 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RGiles
we'd also need it to create text lists or internal Name Maps for which item gets assigned to which Group, Instance and so on. If we didn't have that, we'd have to cry.


It should be easy with the new "add" feature that Quaxi has put in NMAP plugin "some releases ago".
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#35 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 12:57 PM
Right you are. And now exporting to text is just as easy, which is fantastic (I don't like to have to switch views in SimPE if I'm working in a large file, just for the small time delay) I just thought it was worth mentioning that it should be included in the packages, and I kept forgetting.
Instructor
#36 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 9:49 PM
So now the Question is how the "Create Color Extension Package" Options should treat Object that have more than one Color Option available.

I can think of twi diffren solutions:

1. The created package will contain TXTR templates for all available Color Options. The user would have to figure out for himsleve which to use and delete the unneeded Files. Or
2. a little Popup, listing all available Parts, the User can select which he want's to change and a apckage with only those Files would be generated!
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#37 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 10:11 PM
Hm... personally I think the best option would be giving the user a list of parts to choose from. It's probably less confusing to people that way.

Are you generating the default GMND and MMAT files for the objects that need them? I forgot to ask earlier what you planned to do.

RG
The ModFather
retired moderator
#38 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 10:39 PM
I, for one, vote for the option n. 2 (popup list).
I hope there's a way to automate the work of finding the objects that need generating GMND and MMAT... or shall we do it by hand? :sprint:
And the process should deal with previously created SimPE.package or at least delete/overwrite them (a hundred people downloaded v12q - Don't count me, I know what to do with them! )
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#39 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 10:48 PM
yep, that was my pick as well. SimPE 12q does actually generate a list of only the objects that don't have a matching MMAT, so he's definitely got it that far.... and I can only imagine how much further he's gotten with it today. He's such a fast coder.

He was most of the way to have it batch-produce the correct files already, which amazes me to no end.

RG
Instructor
#40 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 10:51 PM
Yes it will deal with the existing simPE.package Files

You can always leave the "Enable Color Options" thing checked if you not sure. SimPE will test if the selected Object has the Recolors enabled (by default or by a previous run of SimPe) if it doesn't it will create the needed Files.

@RGiles:
I Plan to make the ListBox a MultiSelect Bx, sou you can generate the Files all at once. But i think i'll als leave this Option in SimPe, as it would be needed when new EP come out, and maybe some people don't want to have the Recolor Option enbled for all theire Objects.

I'm going to implement the Popup and NameMap (which will also speedup the Loading of the SimPE.package) now. I will later post a new testing release of the Object Workshop in this Thread.
Instructor
#41 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 10:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RGiles
yep, that was my pick as well. SimPE 12q does actually generate a list of only the objects that don't have a matching MMAT, so he's definitely got it that far.... and I can only imagine how much further he's gotten with it today. He's such a fast coder.

He was most of the way to have it batch-produce the correct files already, which amazes me to no end.

RG


Not really. I had to visit a Costumer Today and I had a Deadline for a College Project too, so I'm going to look for some very strong coffe now
:buddies: :sprint:
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#42 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 11:08 PM Last edited by RGiles : 14th Dec 2004 at 11:10 PM.
"I Plan to make the ListBox a MultiSelect Bx, sou you can generate the Files all at once. But i think i'll als leave this Option in SimPe, as it would be needed when new EP come out, and maybe some people don't want to have the Recolor Option enbled for all theire Objects."

So if I understand that correctly, people will still be able to make an extended GMND and Default MMAT for a single object... is that right?

Which seems both good and bad to me at the same time, good because I can see a person wanting to only add new color options to their stairs. Bad only because people *will* start distributing the same GMND and MMAT under different filenames all over the place, no matter what anyone tells them about it.

The only alternative I can think of really is if a person wants to add texture options to just one single object rather than to use the All_GMND.package and ALL_MMAT.package... maybe it would be better if they made a complete cloned object with unique GUID that also has multiple textures enabled. Then if they want to upload their one unique set of stairs, it's not going to duplicate the GMND and MMAT that someone who's using All_GMND.package and ALL_MMAT.package in their game already.

What do you guys think of that?

RG
The ModFather
retired moderator
#43 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 11:26 PM
I thought we already decided to choose the all_gmnd/all_mmat way... I must have misunderstood last Quaxi's post. I was figuring it this way: when someone shares something would state something like "In order to have this object to work, you must have installed the all_gmnd and all_mmat packages [link]". Don't you agree? So the problem is solved once for all...
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#44 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 11:42 PM Last edited by RGiles : 14th Dec 2004 at 11:45 PM.
I am not sure I understood quaxi's last post either. I may have read it incorrectly. I was focusing on this "and maybe some people don't want to have the Recolor Option enbled for all theire Objects".

My suggestion is if they don't want recolors enabled for all their objects, but only a few, then maybe they should be using cloned objects for that, so it will have a unique identifier and is safe to distribute.

"In order to have this object to work, you must have installed the all_gmnd and all_mmat packages [link]". <-- This is exactly what I was thinking of. Like saying in order to run SimPE you must first install the .NET Framework.

RG
The ModFather
retired moderator
#45 Old 14th Dec 2004 at 11:57 PM Last edited by numenor : 15th Dec 2004 at 12:00 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Quaxi
So now the Question is how the "Create Color Extension Package" Options should treat Object that have more than one Color Option available.


I thought he was talking about the objects that already have more than one color option; for each of them (even multiple at the same time) the tool may create a template to be used to add another color (so that we don't have to waste time extracting the correct files from the original packages). This would be a plugin people would thank Quaxi for forever...
Besides, consider that after installing the 2 "all" packages, every object becomes a "multi-color" object!
Instructor
#46 Old 15th Dec 2004 at 12:13 AM
Well, I'm sill unsure about this.

If i disable the Option to Enabled the Color Optiosn, and people don't have the Simpe.packages it will cause lot's of "Object Workshop does not work" Questions.

The next thing is providing a Package named SimPe.package or any other name will probably be renamed by Object Designers too. maybe they even work on the Pacakge for themselves and redistribute it

How about this. I could include a little anoin MessageBox that will pop Up ass soon as you try to gnerate the Simpe.Package. It will state that you shouldnÄt do this but download package xyz...
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#47 Old 15th Dec 2004 at 12:17 AM
Yes, I noticed that as well... and it's exactly something I was silently hoping for. I'd love that so much. :D

It's just this which I'm not clear on "I Plan to make the ListBox a MultiSelect Bx, sou you can generate the Files all at once. But i think i'll als leave this Option in SimPe, as it would be needed when new EP come out, and maybe some people don't want to have the Recolor Option enbled for all theire Objects."

A multi-select box will let user select as many objects as they want to create MMAT and GMND for, from 1 to all of them. My suggestion is have it only allow them to select all or none, and if they only wanted to add recolor options to a few objects, make cloned objects with multicolor enabled, like that first painting Quaxi made.

When an EP comes out (good thinking!), then we'll just use the "all" option over again, and all_MMATs.package and all_GMNDs.package will be updated for everyone.

OK, this time I really am going to bed. No, really, I mean it LOL I have been saying that all day. Good night, folks. And Quaxi, thanks so much. This is going to be so much fun.

RG
Forum Resident
#48 Old 15th Dec 2004 at 12:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by RGiles
I'm so glad to see you, Quaxi. No, ........The new tool is working really well for objects that have one MATD, but doesn't include them all for objects that have more than one (plants with vases, all of the stairs).
RG


Some stairs DO have more than one color choice...? Only the modular stairs only have one.... ? You probably know this...but just incase....

It would be great if we could choose railing colors for the modulars (the white glass stairs comes with black railing--how tacky Have no idea if it's possible at all. I'd be thrilled with just black glass stairs.

Are you saying here that the process you used for incorporating more mmats would or would not work for the modular stairs and plants with vases?
The ModFather
retired moderator
#49 Old 15th Dec 2004 at 1:09 AM
@Quaxi
The idea about the Messagebox is good, but it doesn't solve this problem: if I download a recolored object from another user AND I don't have the simpe.packages (or I don't even have SimPE) that object won't work, obviously. So who shares its creations may be induced to pack the simpe.packages (or, which is worse, a "light" version of them) along with his objects, and this would be a tragedy!
Is it a good point, or am I saying jus bull**it?
The ModFather
retired moderator
#50 Old 15th Dec 2004 at 1:11 AM Last edited by numenor : 15th Dec 2004 at 1:16 AM.
@Mutantbunny
RGiles was referring to modular stairs; I don't know if the new version of SimPE will deal with them; I only know they're the trickiest objects to mod in the whole game...
For the plants and vases we have more chances...
"We always did the possible; we try to do the impossible; we are setting up for the miracles"
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