Hi there! You are currently browsing as a guest. Why not create an account? Then you get less ads, can thank creators, post feedback, keep a list of your favourites, and more!
#26 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 1:31 PM
If that ever happened to me, I just turned around and slapped them rather hard. That usually solved the problem.. There's really no need to take the boys to court and cry sexual harassment, but then again the world appears to have suddenly turned lawyer-crazy..

EDIT: Of course kids don't fully realise that it's a sexual action. All they know is it winds people up, so they do it all the more. It's like them shouting "PENIS!" because they know it's a rude word that shocks people It doesn't actually mean "I'm an exhibitionist and I am about to reveal my manhood, arrest me!"
Advertisement
Mad Poster
#27 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 1:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Modestgurl88
Stuff like this worries....what worries me even more is the fact that people are saying this is horseplay.What do people consider sexual harrassment? Their punishment is way too harsh but to just downplay this as "horseplay" is sad.


I think the issue here is that people are too hasty to jump to qualify every unsolicited attention as sexual harassment. I remember my neighbour telling me about one of her granddaughter's classmates from first grade. The six year old boy used to love to lift the girls' skirts and upsetting them by this. Should he have been charged with sexual harassement because of this? Fact is, kids are curious about sex, interest grows as they age, and involving the police was hasty and without any thought to the kids future. We are grown ups, we know the difference, or how far we can go with someone with regards to sex matters, but kids don't. This is the reason why they are under our supervision, and in our care, and why they cannot decide for themselves. They should be talked to by the parents, the headmaster, given a warning or detention, but not put in jail and tried as adults for things they are not fully aware of.
Forum Resident
#28 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 1:58 PM
Society is so out of whack, if they'd been suspended for a few days and told they needed to treat people with more respect i would have been like... "makes sense" but this is crazy.

Horse Play to the point of being Illegal, is 2 years ago or so here in NC a newbie paramedic decided to play around in an ambulance and shock the driver with the fiberators, killing her. And i don't think HE should spend life in prison...

I'm an old simmer who just can't seem to quit...
Test Subject
#29 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 2:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
I think the issue here is that people are too hasty to jump to qualify every unsolicited attention as sexual harassment. I remember my neighbour telling me about one of her granddaughter's classmates from first grade. The six year old boy used to love to lift the girls' skirts and upsetting them by this. Should he have been charged with sexual harassement because of this? Fact is, kids are curious about sex, interest grows as they age, and involving the police was hasty and without any thought to the kids future. We are grown ups, we know the difference, or how far we can go with someone with regards to sex matters, but kids don't. This is the reason why they are under our supervision, and in our care, and why they cannot decide for themselves. They should be talked to by the parents, the headmaster, given a warning or detention, but not put in jail and tried as adults for things they are not fully aware of.

But where do we draw the line? Teens aren't like they use to be. They are fully aware of what's going...what's sexual...what's wrong. That peroid of being innocent ends around age 9 now.Also, they look and act older.What are we suppose to do with cases like this?
Instructor
#30 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 2:13 PM
I don't think calling them sex offenders is the answer, ModestGurl. They are 13 year old boys. As Haylifer said, they're BOYS. Children do some things for shock value.

YES, it's harassment. YES, it's bad for children to do things like this. However, it's bad for adults to overreact like this!

You can keep your knight in shining armor. I'll take my country boy in turn-out gear!
Proud single mom, firefighter's girl, and beautifully imperfect person.
Avatar is me (tall girl), my Abbi (short girl in hat), and my boyfriend James (lone man) at Abbi's Kindergarten Graduation last May.
Mad Poster
#31 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 4:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Modestgurl88
But where do we draw the line? Teens aren't like they use to be. They are fully aware of what's going...what's sexual...what's wrong. That peroid of being innocent ends around age 9 now.Also, they look and act older.What are we suppose to do with cases like this?




Actually, becoming aware of girls boobs and wanting to know what they feel like when touched, is not exactly wrong. It's normal intrest in the opposite sex at that age. Also, clumsiness, shyness, and general ignorance as to how one should behave towards the oppsite sex with regards to sexual matters is also very common among that age group too. Putting them in jail and dragging them through lawsuits for being young and ignorant is not in their best interest nor can it replace the education they were not given. Why do people feel that they can throw in jail some kid before they have even taken the time to educate him/her? Who's fault is it? The kid's? Or rather his' family and school for not teaching him better?
#32 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 4:13 PM
Quote:
If it were MY daughter it happened to, I would have told her to get used to it, and find a way to defend yourself from it.

Did I say "just accept it?" Nope. I said get used to it, it will happen alot in your life. Learn how to defend yourself from it. You cannot run to the cops everytime something like that happens in the adult world, much less the childs world. Let me just make sure everyone read it this time.... LEARN TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM IT. Be it telling authority, physically defending your body, or verbally telling the person off.........and so on. I would NOT teach my daughter to have her classmate arrested for slapping her butt! And since when does that mean that it teaches boys its OK? It's not OK, but it is a very minor offense! And for the well being of everyone involved, should have been treated as such. Dealt with but not overblown!


I read your post. Why should someone just "get used to it?" People wouldn't have to get used to it if someone - a parent perhaps, had taught their sons that slapping someone's behind is appropriate behavior. So yes, someone sent them the message that such was acceptable because it wasn't dealt with properly early on.

You even suggest in the above paragraph that an authority should be told after saying that you can't run to the cops (an authority figure). And yes, you can "run to the cops" if someone chooses to physically violate you or if they didn't get the memo that unsolicited grabbing is a form of physical assault.
Field Researcher
#33 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 5:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ayshala
The first post states... "Now, Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison, both 13, face the prospect of 10 years in juvenile detention and a lifetime on the sex offender registry in a case that poses a fundamental question: When is horseplay a crime?" Thats where I got it from. Now if this goes thru or not is another matter. Regardless if prosecuters aim high and that is the game,.....there should NEVER have been any mention of such charges for this!



Sexual Predator is one of a set of very defined characteristics of sexual offenders. Just having to register does not make one a sexual predator. That's an assumption many people make. Here's an example of the definition:

"Sex Offender Classifications

Sexual predator: An adult or juvenile classified as sexual predator has been convicted of [adult] or found delinquent by reason of [juvenile] a very serious or violent sexually oriented offense and determined at a classification hearing as likely in the future to commit sexually oriented offense[s]. Sexual predators must register, every 90 days for life, with the Sheriff of the County in which the offender lives; and whenever he/she changes residence. Neighbors and other community entities, such as schools, day care centers, and the like, are notified by the Sheriff whenever a registered sexual predator notifies the Sheriff of the offender’s intention to reside within certain distances of such entities." link

Basically this is what I was talking about. The media gets a hold of a story and blows it out of proportion, then citizens begin placing labels on things that don't belong there, THEN the same citizens start saying, "Look how horrible this is!" Nothing has happened yet! They were charged with a crime that they did commit, and whether you believe it should be a crime or not is up to you. But a crime it is. Now let's see what they actually come up with for a sentence before jumping to conclusions because some newspaper printed the MAXIMUM sentences they could get.



EDIT: OK, so everyone can stop saying "1o years! That's ridiculous!" Here's a more recent statement from the DA:

"District Attorney Bradley Berry has since dismissed the felony counts. The boys face 10 misdemeanor charges of harassment and sexual abuse. They face a maximum of up to one year in a juvenile jail on each count, though Berry said there was no way the boys would ever serve that much time.

“An appropriate sentence would be probation,” he said. “These are minor misdemeanor charges that reflect repeated contact against multiple victims. We never intended for them to get a long time in detention.”

“We’re not seeking major penalties,” he said. “We’re seeking change in conduct.”" link


Also, keep in mind these kid's parents CHOSE to go to trial by refusing to accept any plea agreements, and from other stories I've read constantly refer to the situation as ridiculous, and that "we would all be in jail if this sort of thing is prosecutable." They are fighting the charges because they don't believe their kids did anything wrong. That, my friends, is the real travesty here.
Lab Assistant
#34 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 7:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MireilleContesse
I read your post. Why should someone just "get used to it?" People wouldn't have to get used to it if someone - a parent perhaps, had taught their sons that slapping someone's behind is appropriate behavior. So yes, someone sent them the message that such was acceptable because it wasn't dealt with properly early on.

You even suggest in the above paragraph that an authority should be told after saying that you can't run to the cops (an authority figure). And yes, you can "run to the cops" if someone chooses to physically violate you or if they didn't get the memo that unsolicited grabbing is a form of physical assault.


An authority (teacher, boss, parent) is far different from a legal authority (cop). A cop means a crime with legal proceedings! Sure, if you are in trouble, if you are scared, run to someone, anyone. But no, I don't think arresting them is at all OK. And last I checked, they didn't grab, they slapped.
As far as "they must have been taught this was OK"...........come on! A 12 yr old boy doesn't need to be taught to slap someones butt to do it. Their raging hormones and growth put that action into their minds......not their parents! I worked in an Elementary school, mostly with Preschool and Kindergarden kids. Let me tell you, they are naturally curiouse about each other, especially the opposite sex. If I had reacted to small problems the way the school in Orgen did, I would have had HALF my Kindergarden class in jail!!!! Instead the children were disciplined, NOT stigmitized!


Quote: Originally posted by pieridae
Sexual Predator is one of a set of very defined characteristics of sexual offenders. Just having to register does not make one a sexual predator. That's an assumption many people make. Here's an example of the definition:


Exactly my point!!!!! Even so, the sexual offender registery is not a small thing, it is a major social, economic, and personal anchor. Is it possible to be removed from the registery? Saying (hypothetically) that they were put on,....doesn't that mean for life? Once you have been charged and put on the registery, aren't you there forever? Is it different for juviniles, like once they turn 18 it is wiped?


Quote: Originally posted by pieridae
Basically this is what I was talking about. The media gets a hold of a story and blows it out of proportion, then citizens begin placing labels on things that don't belong there, THEN the same citizens start saying, "Look how horrible this is!" Nothing has happened yet! They were charged with a crime that they did commit, and whether you believe it should be a crime or not is up to you. But a crime it is. Now let's see what they actually come up with for a sentence before jumping to conclusions because some newspaper printed the MAXIMUM sentences they could get.


The media blows it out of proportion??? They were arrested! The original intention of the prosecutor was felony charges. Yes, they were dropped, but that proposal alone has stigmatized those boys for at least the rest of the time they spend in that area! And last I checked, outside of this one school, it IS NOT a crime. What disgusts me that if this happened between adults in an office setting, there would have been NO cops. Someone would have been reprimanded, maybe fired,...............but arrested? Not a chance in hell. Threatened with sexual offender registery? No.



Quote: Originally posted by pieridae
Also, keep in mind these kid's parents CHOSE to go to trial by refusing to accept any plea agreements, and from other stories I've read constantly refer to the situation as ridiculous, and that "we would all be in jail if this sort of thing is prosecutable." They are fighting the charges because they don't believe their kids did anything wrong. That, my friends, is the real travesty here.


According to the link you provided (thank you), "The boys spent five days in a juvenile detention facility and were charged with several counts of felony sex abuse for what they and their parents said was merely inappropriate but not criminal behavior."
How does that translate into the parents not believing their kids did anything wrong???

Also according to that article.....

Depending on the terms of probation, it's likely that the boys would not be allowed to have sexual contact with anyone or any contact with younger children, McFarlane said. For Cory Mashburn, that would mean he couldn't be left alone with his younger siblings.


This is not severe? This isn't still overboard? Even without felony charges, they are still being harshly prosecuted. Even having legal proceedings at all is insane!! If this was a repeated and/or escalating problem, then yes, maybe it is time to call in the cops. But, from what I understand, this was a first offense situation. I would have called the parents and had a conference, long, long, long before I even thought of having them arrested.
Mad Poster
#35 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 8:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by pieridae
Also, keep in mind these kid's parents CHOSE to go to trial by refusing to accept any plea agreements, and from other stories I've read constantly refer to the situation as ridiculous, and that "we would all be in jail if this sort of thing is prosecutable." They are fighting the charges because they don't believe their kids did anything wrong. That, my friends, is the real travesty here.



Well, it is ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous that only two of them get to be prosecuted and while everyone else who addmited to be doing exactly the same thing gets to walk free without a concern in the world. And since it was something done so frequenlty by everybody, how come teachers didn't notice earlier? I mean, if this is blatant sexual harrasment in their opinion, then their school is full of little sexual predators, it's impossible that they didn't see them perviously. Teachers should better watch out with so many criminal elements on the loose.
#36 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 9:30 PM
Default More from the police report
At 14:55 hours, I interviewed Ryan Cornelison in Mr. Tillery's office. I immediately advised him of his Miranda Rights from my departmet issued card. Ryan stated he understood his rights by saying, "yes." Before I ever asked Ryan a question, he volunteered the statement, "Yes, I slapped them on their butts." Ryan stated that he's slapped every girl he'd seen me interview on their butts, but said he never meant to hurt them. He told me he'd been touching them for about 1 week because he was, "Just messing around." He said the girls were all his friends and he thought touching them was funny. Ryan said that although the girls never told him to stop, he knew they did not like it because they would always get mad about it. He does not know how many times or how many girls he's touched. Ryan told me he never touched (victim) breast, but he did admit to scooping a girl named (victim) breast a while back. He also told me he has no idea how may girls he and Cory have dry humped against, but he acknowledges doing so to all the girls mentioned above. Ryan also tole me he know the girls don't like it when he does this.

Afterwards in an interview with ABC news Mashburn said:
"Mashburn told ABC News in a phone interview that this was a common way of saying hello practiced by lots of kids at the school, akin to a secret handshake."

Now if it had been a secret handshake, why did the girls he groped get mad?
How come the defendant lawyer never once mention about these boy dry humping / "party-boy-ing" the victims

voice from a girl who was a victim of "playful groping"

quote Thomas Wendi C.:
"My childhood would have been no less authentic if I'd never been pawed by some boorish kid.

It's easy to tell yourself that these sort of touchy-feeling moments have no lasting effect, on the boys or the girls. But with every pop of a teenage girl's bra strap, with every brush against a breast, with every contact the girl neither initiated nor wanted, her sense of owning her self shrinks.

Every time a girl protests, only to be told she's overreacting, it's the same as telling her that her body is not completely her own.

And every time a boy gets away with putting his hands where they weren't invited, his sense of what he has a right to do grows.
These unsolicited touches warp the receiver and the giver, in ways we can't see, but in ways that remain. "

The boys knew what they were doing, they knew the girls they touched didn't like it, and they kept on doing it. not to mention trashing the hall of the school.

PS: these two was not the first to be charge with harrasment from the same school, there was one precedent case.
Lab Assistant
#37 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 10:18 PM
Sex offenders? For slapping asses? Ugh. I guess all those boys in my old 3rd grade class are on the shitlist too (for flipping up girls' dresses/skirts), then, if we're gonna get technical about it. How stupid. Detention/suspension/maybe some JuVe if they copped an innapropriate feel, but (no pun intended) smacking a rump of your peer (especially in middle school) is hardly worthy of the sex offenders' list.
#38 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 11:09 PM
Quote:
An authority (teacher, boss, parent) is far different from a legal authority (cop). A cop means a crime with legal proceedings! Sure, if you are in trouble, if you are scared, run to someone, anyone. But no, I don't think arresting them is at all OK. And last I checked, they didn't grab, they slapped.


How is slapping any different from grabbing? From where I stand, it's not. That's just semantics on your part.


Quote:
As far as "they must have been taught this was OK"...........come on! A 12 yr old boy doesn't need to be taught to slap someones butt to do it. Their raging hormones and growth put that action into their minds......not their parents! I worked in an Elementary school, mostly with Preschool and Kindergarden kids. Let me tell you, they are naturally curiouse about each other, especially the opposite sex. If I had reacted to small problems the way the school in Orgen did, I would have had HALF my Kindergarden class in jail!!!! Instead the children were disciplined, NOT stigmitized!


But a 12 year old boy can certainly be taught it's not right. Even little kids are taught that hitting is inappropriate behavior. Raging hormones are not an excuse, and the sooner people learn that one's hormones don't give them the rights over someone elses's body, the better people we will be raising. And that certainly is their parents' job to teach them that.

Why are you still trying to compare 12 year olds to kindergarten students? At 12, they know better. Being curious is not an excuse either. It is however, the perfect time to reinforce the idea that people's bodies are their own and that no one has the right to touch it, slap it, grab it in any way with out permission.

So why, instead is it the victim's responsibility to just deal with it when someone violates them? Why are they the bad guy when someone else does something wrong to them? I don't care at all for victim blaming.


And because it can't be said enough...

Quote:
Every time a girl protests, only to be told she's overreacting, it's the same as telling her that her body is not completely her own.

And every time a boy gets away with putting his hands where they weren't invited, his sense of what he has a right to do grows.


Maybe if girls weren't told to just deal with it, people wouldn't still think that unwanted touching, groping, etc. is acceptible in any form or deserving of a figurative slap on the wrist and guilt tripping of the girl who reports it.

Quote:
Sex offenders? For slapping asses? Ugh. I guess all those boys in my old 3rd grade class are on the shitlist too (for flipping up girls' dresses/skirts),


I hope that flipping up girls' skirts is not just brushed off. I hope some kind of discipline is involved other than a non-reinforced "don't do that."
Test Subject
#39 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 11:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MireilleContesse
How is slapping any different from grabbing? From where I stand, it's not. That's just semantics on your part.




But a 12 year old boy can certainly be taught it's not right. Even little kids are taught that hitting is inappropriate behavior. Raging hormones are not an excuse, and the sooner people learn that one's hormones don't give them the rights over someone elses's body, the better people we will be raising. And that certainly is their parents' job to teach them that.

Why are you still trying to compare 12 year olds to kindergarten students? At 12, they know better. Being curious is not an excuse either. It is however, the perfect time to reinforce the idea that people's bodies are their own and that no one has the right to touch it, slap it, grab it in any way with out permission.

So why, instead is it the victim's responsibility to just deal with it when someone violates them? Why are they the bad guy when someone else does something wrong to them? I don't care at all for victim blaming.


And because it can't be said enough...

Every time a girl protests, only to be told she's overreacting, it's the same as telling her that her body is not completely her own.

And every time a boy gets away with putting his hands where they weren't invited, his sense of what he has a right to do grows.

Thank you for posting this. I think it's great these girls are/were encouraged to speak up.I'm always shocked when I hear people telling a girl that she is overreacting. :disagree:
Lab Assistant
#40 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 11:22 PM
Whatever. The boys should be suspended because what they did is inappropriate. However, slapping the opposite sex on the ass as a juvenile is not necessarily the precursor to becoming a sex offender. A freak maybe, but not a damned criminal. If that were so, then I guess all the girls, including myself, who used to slap Big Booty Brian on the tail in our senior year of high school must be raging pervert criminals by now. :disagree:

Kids and teens do immature silly stuff. Would we slap Brian on the ass today? No. Did he enjoy it when it was being done? Yes. Would we have stopped if he told us to? Certainly. Are people overreacting again? Yes.
Theorist
#41 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 11:43 PM
I am inclined to agree with you, Chynableu, despite not knowing who Big Booty Brian is...lol What you do as a 12 year old does NOT define the adult you will become. Honestly, who among us would be upstanding citizens if we were judged by our actions as a pre-teen? Yes, I think they crossed the line, however I do not think the punishment is appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Lab Assistant
#42 Old 30th Jul 2007 at 11:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MireilleContesse
How is slapping any different from grabbing? From where I stand, it's not. That's just semantics on your part.

Actually it would be semantics on your part, a big difference on mine. If you don't know the difference, try both and see.



Quote: Originally posted by MireilleContesse
But a 12 year old boy can certainly be taught it's not right. Even little kids are taught that hitting is inappropriate behavior. Raging hormones are not an excuse, and the sooner people learn that one's hormones don't give them the rights over someone elses's body, the better people we will be raising. And that certainly is their parents' job to teach them that.

Why are you still trying to compare 12 year olds to kindergarten students? At 12, they know better. Being curious is not an excuse either. It is however, the perfect time to reinforce the idea that people's bodies are their own and that no one has the right to touch it, slap it, grab it in any way with out permission.

So why, instead is it the victim's responsibility to just deal with it when someone violates them? Why are they the bad guy when someone else does something wrong to them? I don't care at all for victim blaming.
And because it can't be said enough...
Maybe if girls weren't told to just deal with it, people wouldn't still think that unwanted touching, groping, etc. is acceptible in any form or deserving of a figurative slap on the wrist and guilt tripping of the girl who reports it.
I hope that flipping up girls' skirts is not just brushed off. I hope some kind of discipline is involved other than a non-reinforced "don't do that."


Exactly! People are acting like I said "Good, the girls deserve it, lets all root for boys who slap em on the butt!" Not even close to anything I've posted. AGAIN, they should be disciplined, not turned into criminals!

They were read their miranda rights before they were even talked to, or before the school even knew what happened? That is a hell of an overreaction.

Nixie Is the piece you quoted a later part of the article I missed or from another source? I cannot find it..... And I still see nothing that states these boys had past reported problems. As far as I can tell, the school knew NOTHING of any of these supposed acts until AFTER the "miranda rights" and interview. So they had no reason to act the way they did. It should have been sternly handled, it should have been taken up to the Principal, it should have warrented a call to the parents, especially considering the extra info. BUT, it should have never resulted in an arrest. I don't think anyone in this thread has stated the boys did NOTHING wrong,......just that the punishment was by far an overreaction, and unjust. NO adult would have gone thru this for the same actions, and NO child should have to go thru this for ignorant adolescent acts! They should be taught to stop, not taught that they are criminal and evil!
Test Subject
#43 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 12:14 AM
As Reindeer 911 brought up, the girls' testimony wasn't necessarily accurate...
#44 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 12:43 AM
Quote:
Actually it would be semantics on your part, a big difference on mine. If you don't know the difference, try both and see.


Both are physical contact involving the hand touching the backside. Why are you trying to downplay the slap as though it's nothing?

Quote:
Exactly! People are acting like I said "Good, the girls deserve it, lets all root for boys who slap em on the butt!" Not even close to anything I've posted. AGAIN, they should be disciplined, not turned into criminals!

They were read their miranda rights before they were even talked to, or before the school even knew what happened? That is a hell of an overreaction.


What you said was that girls just have to get used to it. I'm not goting to tell any child, teen or adult to get used to being slapped on the backside or any other unwanted physical contact. I'm not raising a doormat or someone who thinks it is their lot in life to get used to abuse. I'm not raising a son to think he can do whatever he wants to people and it will be downplayed just because he is a boy with hormones. I certaily won't ell them that they are overreacting by getting upset about someone slapping any part of them.

The boys should not have been arrested, but I'm not going to act as though their current behavior patterns need not be taken seriously. They need something much more than a don't
Lab Assistant
#45 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 1:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by MireilleContesse
Both are physical contact involving the hand touching the backside. Why are you trying to downplay the slap as though it's nothing?



What you said was that girls just have to get used to it. I'm not goting to tell any child, teen or adult to get used to being slapped on the backside or any other unwanted physical contact. I'm not raising a doormat or someone who thinks it is their lot in life to get used to abuse. I'm not raising a son to think he can do whatever he wants to people and it will be downplayed just because he is a boy with hormones. I certaily won't ell them that they are overreacting by getting upset about someone slapping any part of them.

The boys should not have been arrested, but I'm not going to act as though their current behavior patterns need not be taken seriously. They need something much more than a don't



You need to go reread the two posts that have already covered this please. Post #17 and #13. To summerize, If it were MY daughter it happened to, I would have told her to get used to it, and find a way to defend yourself from it. Where did I say girls should just get used to it????????????????
I will PROMISE you that my theorectical girl child WILL have to deal with this again, both as a child and as an adult. I CAN PROMISE you that those girls in the story will have to deal with this problem again, both as a child and as an adult. And I damn well want her to know how to defend herself from it. I also want her to know when someone is a real sexual predator and a threat, and when someone is just an idiot. That way she will live her life in knowledge, not fear.
#46 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 1:48 AM
Forgive me, your daughter will have to get used to it.

My theoretical daughter will not have to get used to bad behavior on someone elses's part just because thier parents refused to do their job. She will not be taught that she is hysterical just because othiers think that girls/women's bodies are a free-for-all for boys/men and their hormones. My theoretical son won't learn from me that just because others accept violatinong someone's body as just hormones that he to acn behave in such a way. Anyone who tries to convince them otherwise is not doing them any favors in life. They will learn how to protect themselves, but they will never learn that is is just a common part of eveeryday life that tehy "have to get used to."

That is not teaching fear. That is teaching them respect for themselves and for others.
#47 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 3:51 AM
ayshala,

the quote is from police report 1 page 7

other thoughts:
theres been a lot of inconsistency with what they (the boys, and what the laywer and press reports) are saying, I read many site* that report the case (mostly talking of the same thing: making the case look ridiculous like Quick call 911 if you see the boys bla bla bla), I can safely say around 90% support them and think its utter nonsense to charge them with anything at all. Which i think is the work of "Lawyer with money". The parents are not wealthy but a lot of people has offered to help them. They have a legal fee funds thing set up. I think with these money they have blown the case out of proportion, telling the people things they like to hear and hiding away some. like the scooping of breast and dry humping girls.

One of the boys mentioned their parents did not tell them that it was wrong to behave like they had. O.o

They need to be punish accordingly otherwise we are allowing a wrong message to continue. What the punishment will be, is up to the court.

*I look up sites hoping to find why they were arrested in the first place.

More views from victim
"Christian Richter, one of the alleged victims, said, "I think it's a crime, but I don't think it's that serious."

"I do believe it should not have happened," she said. "Everybody knows about sex and our private parts. Our butts are our private parts, and I don't want mine touched."

Parents of two other alleged victims have told the school district they plan to sue because they face "significant expenses" for counseling to deal with the "sexual harassment and abuse."
Theorist
#48 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 4:43 AM
Yeah, see that to me says the parents are trumping it up so they can cash in. Getting goosed is NOT, repeat NOT such an offense that the victim would need to spend "significant expenses" for therapy. The parents are just trying to make as much money as they can by suing for an absolutely ridiculous claim. Sorry, but suing the school district because their daughter got goosed and they need counseling is a flipping mockery of the legal system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
#49 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 6:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
Actually, becoming aware of girls boobs and wanting to know what they feel like when touched, is not exactly wrong. It's normal intrest in the opposite sex at that age.



You're right, there's nothing wrong with awareness. There IS something very wrong with 12 year olds copping feels as they run down the hallway. Remember, this was a full on butt-slapping frenzy, with a few boob grabs thrown in.


Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
Also, clumsiness, shyness, and general ignorance as to how one should behave towards the oppsite sex with regards to sexual matters is also very common among that age group too. Putting them in jail and dragging them through lawsuits for being young and ignorant is not in their best interest nor can it replace the education they were not given. Why do people feel that they can throw in jail some kid before they have even taken the time to educate him/her? Who's fault is it? The kid's? Or rather his' family and school for not teaching him better?



At the point someone has committed a crime, it's too late to wonder what could have been done. Parents may want to start sitting up and paying attention to their children. The fact that the parents rejected a plea agreement (which would NOT have involved sex offender registry) is appalling to me. The parents, from what I've read, are busy putting their kid's pictures in every local newspaper (they could have opted not to be identified), and crying about how they "wish it was all over" and how their kids shouldn't be labelled sex offenders. But, you know what? It could have been over, had they taken the agreement. Now, they will go to trial and the kids might have to register after all. Then they will cry about the injustice of it all. At this point, it is the parent's fault. They CHOSE to have their kids pictures out there for the world to see, they CHOSE to reject a plea agreement, because they believe their kids did NOTHING wrong. What kind of a message is that sending? Do you think a five day suspension with the kids sitting at home playing video games while their parents tell them they did nothing wrong would have taught those boys good moral values and to respect others bodies? This is what our criminal justice system is for: to step in when a crime has been committed and when others have not been taught right from wrong. As far as I'm concerned, it is not the school's job to educate children on right from wrong. It is the parent's.
Field Researcher
#50 Old 31st Jul 2007 at 6:39 AM
I pretty much think that what the boys did was wrong. It could lead to what they think is "OK" until they push beyond the limits. If they aren't warned for slapping an ass or tit, they will go much much further. Possibley into rape. But the punishment set is not acceptable I think. 5 days in Juvie, I could deal with. But when they face up to 10 years, then the punishment is too far. I mean, if it was JUST a first offence, there should not be such a long punishment. First time offenders at that age and for that crime should not be that long.

As for the "Stop over-reacting" I can agree. You cannot over-react when you feel violated or harrassed. Its your body. Boys can be harrassed as well. Probrably from other boys or girls groping them. If you feel insecure from a situation someone else put on you, walking away works just as fine. Or a simple warning.
 
Page 2 of 4
Back to top