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Alchemist
#26 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:31 PM
Yep...HL is right as usual. Here's your "magic":

; decompiled with S3ModlD V1.00 - by Wesley Howe
MATD 0103
MtlName 0x8247F802
ShaderName Plumbob
MTNF 9
BounceAmountMeters 1 1 0.050000000745
RefractionDistortionScale 1 1 0.750000000000
RotationSpeed 1 1 1.000000000000
Shininess 1 1 12.053999900818
Specular 1 3 0.480345100164 0.519801974297 0.311881214380
Transparency 1 1 1.000000000000
Diffuse 1 3 0.786784112453 0.787128686905 0.787128686905
FresnelOffset 1 1 0.300000011921
UVScales 1 3 0.000030518509 0.000000000000 0.000000000000

right there in the mtlsrc for the MODL.

I'm wondering...didn't the ObjTool give you an error when you replaced the two group atrium MODL with the single group plumbob MODL?
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Banned
Original Poster
#27 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:35 PM
I was just told this.

The issue you're having though is because you didn't create the object correctly and not because of some magic inherent in the plumbob shape itself.

ANd now I'm told this.

The shiny and floating/spinning is most likely due to the plumbob shader in the mtlsrc.

So is it something inherent in the MLOD or not? One says it isnt, one says it is...

I dont know. I might try and redo it again, but it's frustrating because you guys are STILL insisting I must've done more than replace the one file to make it do what it does, and I'm still repeating ad nauseam that I have not, and nobody wants to believe me. And I still don't know if it will keep that functionality if I fix it, and if it wont, I dont want to do it at all.

So until I know whether or not it's still going to look the same, I am not going to attempt to redo it. I dont want to waste time on it if it isnt going to end up the same. :\
Banned
Original Poster
#28 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
Yep...HL is right as usual. Here's your "magic":

; decompiled with S3ModlD V1.00 - by Wesley Howe
MATD 0103
MtlName 0x8247F802
ShaderName Plumbob
MTNF 9
BounceAmountMeters 1 1 0.050000000745
RefractionDistortionScale 1 1 0.750000000000
RotationSpeed 1 1 1.000000000000
Shininess 1 1 12.053999900818
Specular 1 3 0.480345100164 0.519801974297 0.311881214380
Transparency 1 1 1.000000000000
Diffuse 1 3 0.786784112453 0.787128686905 0.787128686905
FresnelOffset 1 1 0.300000011921
UVScales 1 3 0.000030518509 0.000000000000 0.000000000000

right there in the mtlsrc for the MODL.

I'm wondering...didn't the ObjTool give you an error when you replaced the two group atrium MODL with the single group plumbob MODL?


I didnt USE the objtool. I used s3pe.

And now YOU keep saying "MODL" when I've clarified it was the MLOD so now I'm even more confused. :\

Am I going to have to take step-by-step pictures of what I did, or what?
Alchemist
#29 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:40 PM
Claeric, I hate to say it but now you're just getting annoying. If you open your package and look at the MODL, the very same MODL I just posted text from above, you will see that it isn't the MLOD you changed to be the plumbob.



Go read up on what an mtlsrc is and does, go look up how glass works, and quit trying to make it like everyone here is confused except for you.

You made your object wrong so it cannot be picked up. You made simple meshing mistakes. Go read a tutorial or two as was suggested to you early on and repeated at least once since.

And little tip for you...if you come asking for help the way to insure people want to help you in the future is not to be rude and painful when people try to help you. The way to insure help in the future is to thank them and then go do what they suggested...which in this case is read a tutorial and quit asking questions that have been answered over and over in this forum.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#30 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:49 PM
How does one mesh without using the ObjTool?
What you did then if you just import and replace the mlod is to "repackage" the file. It's a miracle it even shows up in game, really!

Read MOAR, Claeric!
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#31 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:47 PM
Is it possible he replaced a MODL with a MLOD or something weird like that even?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#32 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:58 PM
No...it was MODL to MODL. The plumbob doesn't have any MLODs and, I can tell from the mtlsrc's, it was his MODL he changed even though he is now insisting it was an MLOD.

Half the problem in this thread has been the incoherent way the OP has gone about trying to explain what he did...I'm guessin' it's because he himself isn't quite clear on it. At first I thought all he did was replace the mesh (hence my skepticism that the mesh alone was carrying information that made it float) but from looking at the package it's more like he just copied the plumbob MODL in its entirety and then somehow got that into the kitchen utensils package managing to delete one of its MLODs in the process and overwrite another with the MLOD from the atrium fern. The only other MLOD in the package has had all its groups deleted as well.

So we're talking about a package that has 1 MODL with a single group, an MLOD with three groups, and an MLOD with no groups. That's why the footprint and grab thing are borked but the OP won't listen to what people are trying to tell him on that.
Banned
Original Poster
#33 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:03 PM
Skimming through the new object mesh tutorial seemed to make it clear thta all you basically had to do was export the mlods and modls, decompile them, edit them, recompile them, and replace them in S3PE. I did not read the whole thing, no, I only made this object as a test object to see if I could do it right. By that I mean "see if I could get a mesh to change". Which I did.

That is why I didnt use objtool. All I did was extract, decompile, recompile, replace.

And looking at it again(I had to re-extract it, and S3OC crashed 5 out of 6 tries, it seems to crash a lot for me unless I'm extracting already buyable objects), the plumbob(the original one) only has a MODL file.

SO it looks like I extracted a MODL and replaced a MLOD with it. And I know for a FACT I replaced the original atrium one's MLOD, because I made sure it had group ID 0x000000 because that was the first part of the mesh-replacing in the tutorial, to replace that one. I am PRETTY SURE I did the same with the kitchen utensil one. It was only a test object ot see if I could do it. I was just trying different things. So I didn't write down what I did or anything. All I know is I went to 0x000000 and replaced it.

REGARDLESS, both function the exact same way.

It works and doesnt explode the game, but it can't be picked up. It has badass effects that I'd like to persist if it was made properly, and is generally awesome.

I am just frustrated because I've got one person who says it's not inherent with the plumbob, and one who says it is, and people telling me I must have done more than extract a file and replace another when I didnt.
Alchemist
#34 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:06 PM
No Claeric...you were told there is nothing inherent in the *mesh* not the whole entire MODL. Also, as shown in the picture above you replaced a MODL with a MODL. You deleted one of the MLODs altogether. You deleted the group in one of the other MLODs while leaving the empty MLOD shell there. You replaced the last MLOD with the MLOD from an entirely different clone.

This is why your object isn't grabbable.

And there's no point in making a test object if what you're testing isn't the right way to do things. Making a mesh that works is gonna require use of the ObjTool as nicely illustrated by the mess you've made of this object without it.
Banned
Original Poster
#35 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:17 PM
You deleted one of the MLODs altogether. You deleted the group in one of the other MLODs while leaving the empty MLOD shell there.

You're telling me I did all these things I did not do. Obviously nobody believes anything I'm saying, so forget it.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#36 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:25 PM
The effects are inherent in the plumbob, and most likely tied directly to that shadername in the mtlsrc. As Inge pointed out the MLOD/MODL have much more data in them than simply the mesh. Effects such as glass and transparency, as well as the bounding box. Bounding box = Grabbing area.

Each MODL and MLOD has linking information to your current package. Directly replacing them from one package to another gives unexpected results or crashing. Although honestly I'm unsure still what you really did. But you need to do the replacing in Milkshape and not replacing resources in s3pe. If you decompiled and recompiled then you did use the ObjTool.

Try walking through that tutorial and replacing the MODL/MLOD as stated. Don't just skim, you will miss important parts that way. Also search for the tutorial/discussion here where several people are discussing the mtlsrc and changing glass. It is not exactly what you are doing but it will explain that file and how to change it.

I think what you are doing is possible if done correctly. Including keeping the floating/twirling thing.
Alchemist
#37 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:35 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 28th Feb 2010 at 6:24 PM.
I looked at the original kitchen utensils package and here is how it compares to yours:

Original
1 MODL with 1 group
1 MLOD with 2 groups
1 MLOD with 0 groups

Yours
1 MODL with 1 group
1 MLOD with 3 groups
1 MLOD with 0 groups

So, while it is true that you didn't delete an MLOD or remove the group from an MLOD, it is also true that you replaced one of the MLODs with the MLOD of another clone...namely you replaced the utensil MLOD1 with the atrium fern MLOD1. I know this because when I decompile that MLOD and look at it in MS it is the mesh for the atrium fern I'm seeing there and not the mesh for the utensils even though the MLOD name is kitchen utensils.

And therein lies one of your problems...you can't add or delete groups like that without ending up with problems in your object.

I tried making a floating garden gnome by just altering the phong slider to the plumbob slider but he didn't float. He didn't crash the game but no floating gnome...lol. So there's something else in the MODL besides that one slider that allows the diamond thing to float.
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