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11th Aug 2010, 08:27 PM
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Can some types of music cause an increase in crime? #1 |
| Lemon&Lime |
Is it true that so-called "gangsta rap" style music, which often reference gun crime/power/gangs in their lyrics, are to blame for the increase in knife/gun crime? Three articles from well-known sources as reference - Article from respected British newspaper the telegraph, arguing that rap music glamorises gun violence - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...n-violence.html New York Times article arguing a similar point - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/03/us/03hiphop.html Psychological study/report - http://cognitive-psychology.suite10...logical_effects A random interesting fact - crime in general has decreased by around 10% in Britain within the last 5 years. So is the increased media coverage of crime a factor? |
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Last edited by Figgi : 11th Aug 2010 at 09:06 PM.
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11th Aug 2010, 08:47 PM
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#2 |
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Nekowolf
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2008 |
They said rock and roll was the Devil's music, too. Music on its own does nothing. Violence comes from deeper issues. |
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Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God? |
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11th Aug 2010, 08:48 PM
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#3 |
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supersimoholic
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I think that if the wrong person listens to it and thinks it's "cool" this person could influence other people to also think that it's "cool"... Because we all know that some people need to be accepted and if violence is cool then they are cool for being violent... But before anyone says "you could say the same about computer games" well, not really... because in computer games, you know that the person is pretend, and what they do isn't real. Where as in songs, it's a real person singing about real situations, and they look up to these people because they are famous... |
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11th Aug 2010, 08:54 PM
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#4 |
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fakepeeps7
Site Helper
  
Join Date: Jan 2006 |
I don't know for sure. But if listening to some kinds of music (like classical) can be good for you, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that "angry" music could have a detrimental effect. |
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11th Aug 2010, 08:59 PM
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#5 | |
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TRIriana
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Quote:
What Nekowolf said, it's highly doubtful that rap music can increase gun/knife crime. The article from the NYT had a doctor saying as much, and the article from the Telegraph was just a quote from Blunkett stating his personal opinion, which doesn't make the idea more valid than anyone else's. |
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11th Aug 2010, 09:03 PM
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#6 |
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amandatea
Lab Assistant
Join Date: Jun 2009 |
A person is going to do what they're going to do.. This is based on their personality/decisions/perhaps events in their lives that put them in a certain situation.... Saying that music causes their behaviour is a convenient excuse to demonize said genre of music and it is ridiculous. |
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11th Aug 2010, 09:05 PM
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#7 |
| Lemon&Lime |
Here's another interesting article - a psychological study on the effects of rap music. Going to edit my original post to add this as a reference. http://cognitive-psychology.suite10...logical_effects I personally think that music can definately influence someone's perception of crime, particularly if you listen as a child/teenager because those are some of the crucial points in your life where you begin to form your opinions, ideals, who you are. I mean, there is a huge amount of evidence that witnessing domestic abuse as a child for exampel can lead to an increased chance of someone committing crime themselve. So why not listening, as opposed to seeing? |
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11th Aug 2010, 09:12 PM
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#8 | |
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TRIriana
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Quote:
I understand where you're coming from, but the two examples do not equate at all. There's a huge difference between being emotionally involved in abuse, and seeing it constantly until such a time occurs that you are able to get out of the situation - and hearing a 3-minute rap. One of those things you cannot get away from, the other you can choose to turn off MTV or the local radio station. |
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11th Aug 2010, 09:16 PM
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#9 | |
| Lemon&Lime |
Quote:
That's true, but what if you chose to listen to it, over and over, for several years and thats the only kind of music you listen to, as well as hang out with people who have a similar taste in music as you. That's what I mean, I'm not talking about people who are both forced to witness abuse and forced to listen. I'm trying to compare people forced to witness physical abuse with people who chose to listen to a lot of gangsta rap. To be honst, my own opinion is somewhat mutual on the topic. I think there is a link, definately, but it's a topic I'm interested in more as a academical/psychological angle. More interested in the "why it might" rather than the "yes or no". |
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11th Aug 2010, 10:05 PM
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#10 |
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Purity4
Forum Resident
Join Date: Nov 2009 |
I agree with TrIriana and Nekowolf on this. Violence is a choice. Your musical taste does not make you violent. There are people who listen to rap who never become violent because it's not in their nature to be violent. Blaming music or other media, or peer pressure, is just another way to put blame elsewhere. I'm tired of people making excuses for those who do wrong. They made the choice. Those that choose to be violent and commit crimes ought to be held 100% responsible for those actions rather then trying to blame it on someone or something else. |
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11th Aug 2010, 10:08 PM
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#11 |
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el_flel
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I'll probably post something more insightful in the morning but for now: IMO a person's musical taste is influenced by their lifestyle, not the other way around. So if someone is listening to music which glorifies criminal behaviour then chances are they probably thought that way anyway. |
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Last edited by el_flel : 11th Aug 2010 at 10:26 PM.
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11th Aug 2010, 10:23 PM
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#12 |
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imaeatyaface
Lab Assistant
Join Date: May 2010 |
Usually it's some sort of vengeance, rage or a deeper issue that compels violence, the "Rap music made me do it!" excuse seems like just that:an excuse. The responsibility of the crime lies entirely in the person who committed the crime, not 50 Cent or Kanye or whoever is the rap flavor right now. In my opinion, if rap influences you to go out and try to do what's described in song lyrics, well, you're not unlike the people who get influenced by video games and TV. I'm speaking for myself here. I listen to rap-go ahead and laugh-but I don't, however, go out and do drive by's, shake my ass or whatever. They did the same with rock'n' roll, people still do, and rap is not going to change anytime soon. |
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11th Aug 2010, 10:29 PM
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#13 |
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Nekowolf
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2008 |
@fakepeeps7 The thing about classical music, is that it's good in a different way than how, as you put it, "angry" music would be detrimental. The way such music could be detrimental would be through some form of emotional stimulation. From what little I know about music and the brain, classical music is not good through emotional responses, but rather through neurological stimulation, or something like that. I think. Again, I only have a very basic knowledge on it. |
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Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God? |
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11th Aug 2010, 11:09 PM
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#14 | |
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fakepeeps7
Site Helper
Join Date: Jan 2006 |
Quote:
It may not have anything to do with emotions at all. There has been quite a bit of research done on music and plants. In general, they do better with classical music. It's probably something to do with either melody or vibrations... which are drastically different when you're comparing classical music to rap or hard rock. I'm not saying we're plants, but I don't see why we wouldn't be affected by vibrations as much as (or more than) plants. We are giant masses of vibrating atoms, after all. |
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12th Aug 2010, 12:55 AM
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#15 |
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Nekowolf
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2008 |
Well then...wouldn't that be more of a matter of growth and cell stimulation more than anything else? Though, I guess that could, like...I dunno, make you smarter or something, it wouldn't necessarily turn you into a criminal. Social environment would have a much much greater hand into that. But if they're unstable enough to have music influence them into committing some form of criminal activity, then really, it could've been anything that would have the capability to set them off. It just happened to be some kind of music. This is actually similar to the whole issue over video games. Some claim playing violent video games makes you have violent tendencies. The problem is though, look at how many people play violent video games and are not violent, do not have criminal records or anything like that. Basically, those who somehow are set off by this stuff, they already have some deep-seeded problem that is the real cause, and really, it could be just about anything that can set that off. It could be movies, or games, or music, or some blogger, or even some real-world event. Even if there is some kind of detrimental effect, there really isn't anything you can do about it. |
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Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God? |
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12th Aug 2010, 01:20 AM
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#16 | |
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fakepeeps7
Site Helper
Join Date: Jan 2006 |
Quote:
Granted, it's probably not going to turn you into a criminal. But, as others have said, if you're prone to violence, you might tend to listen to music with violent messages. Even if the effect is just "growth and cell stimulation", it can't really be helping. It's like a fire. Listening to that music didn't actually start it... but it could be like adding fuel. Aren't there some studies that measure brain activity while listening to different types of music? I'm sure they've been done, but I wouldn't know where to find them. |
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12th Aug 2010, 02:41 AM
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#17 |
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Nekowolf
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2008 |
Oh, well of course. But blaming the music they listen to really doesn't accomplish anything, and at worse, is a distraction from the real issue. And that's the problem. People confuse correlation with causation. |
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Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God? |
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12th Aug 2010, 06:38 AM
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#18 | |
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amandatea
Lab Assistant
Join Date: Jun 2009 |
Quote:
Speaking as a trained musician and an extreme geek... Music is beneficial to your mind, soul, body, etc because of a few things 1) Emotionally - yes, that's part of it for sure. Music can do a lot to uplift you..and maybe this is just because i'm a born musician- ie i am obsessed and always have been - but i have never ever had music have any kind of negative affect on my emotions. No matter which genre - maybe some artists/groups are annoying to me but pure music is always a positive thing for me. 2) Neurologically - It does a lot for the way your brain works. Maybe more-so if you learn it in detail in a theory or music lesson type of setting but i think it still does something for your brain even simply as an observer. That is why it is so important that music and the arts in general to be put back into the school system. 3) Scientifically - The reason certain notes sound nicer together than others is because of the frequency of the sounds. There is actually a mathematical/scientific aspect of musical notes "Where Math meets Music" http://www.musicmasterworks.com/Whe...MeetsMusic.html That site can explain it way better than i could. And here is one for reference. Frequencies for equal-tempered scale http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html Hopefully that helps you understand how music is good for us. 
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12th Aug 2010, 07:20 AM
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#19 |
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tizerist
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2007 |
For sure it increases crime. It promotes guns, pimping etc. If you're at an impressionable age, or just an impressionable person, it will damage the person. |
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12th Aug 2010, 09:22 AM
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#20 |
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jooxis
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I agree that it could provide influence. All people who claim music has zero affect on these things clearly underestimate the power music can have. And this goes beyond just "violence", music can influence people in lots of ways. Of course in order to commit violent acts you have to have certain issues within yourself, but music (and other forms of media such as books, movies, art, etc.) can definitely influence and cause certain triggers to go off. |
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12th Aug 2010, 12:00 PM
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#21 |
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Nekowolf
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2008 |
@amandatea Oh, uh, lack of clarity on my part, my bad. What I meant was, though, is it is unlikely that music would put you into such an emotional state that it is essentially a breakdown or what not. Music has influence, yes, but for a normal person, it wouldn't go that far. On a personal note, and something I find a bit amusing, when I'm depressed, I listen to heavy metal and it makes me feel better. I think it might also help me concentrate depending what I'm doing, too. But nonetheless, thanks for the links; music is always an interesting topic. |
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Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God? |
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12th Aug 2010, 01:12 PM
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#22 |
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SuicidiaParasidia
Alchemist
Join Date: Feb 2008 |
i say certain types of music cause an increase in crime the same way standing around tall people makes you tall. or that owning a gun turns you into a bloodthirsty animal. or that being raised by homosexuals turns you into a homosexual. point being: influence is not the same as mind control. the impulse has to first be there in order for it to be triggered, and since the same thing doesnt trigger everybody then the trigger cannot be named. |
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Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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12th Aug 2010, 01:45 PM
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#23 | |
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nea200pl
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Interesting topic Figgi. No, I don't think music increases anything. I think people saying something like *this type of music (or violent games - very popular distraction recently) made me do it* just look for something to put the blame on and easy distraction from their own crimes. I listen to gangsta rap regularly (and play violent games for that matter) and that does not make me angry in anyway, push me to commit crimes, own a weapon and so on. Quote:
Maybe gun crimes, because knife crimes and crimes against disabled or mentally challenged people (where are humans heading to I have no idea) have very much increased. | |
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HK-47: Objection: I am not a problem, meatbag. You and your lack of any organized repair skills are a problem.
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12th Aug 2010, 01:46 PM
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#24 |
| Lemon&Lime |
After reading everyone's replies, I was thinking on this debate last night before going to bed and I was reminded of something I saw on the news a while ago. I think that sometimes it comes down to "circumstantial evidence" (sp?) Let me give an example. There was a woman called Kersher or something (sp?) in France who was convicted along with her boyfriend of raping and murdering her flatmate. It became a really high-profile case, fairly recently. One of the pieces of evidence used against her was that she had started to write a story on her laptop/computer about a woman who was brutally raped and then murdered. The TV news channel didn't provide information on whether the story focused on the rape or the recovery or as a crime story, but the story existed. Now, seeing as she was linked to a rape and murder the story she wrote was used in evidence, because it could suggest a violent imagination. Yet I don't see the writers of the Saw series being brought in to questioning/psychological assessment purely on the basis of their violent films. Therefore, I think that actually the link may well be a chicken/egg situation, but it can't always be proven which came first - the violence or the music. Edit: I strongly recommend that people on this thread read the psychological study I linked to on my first post, it provides evidence that watching rap music videos does lead to an increase in violent/sexist attitudes towards women, but only if the music is listened to, without watching the video. |
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12th Aug 2010, 05:08 PM
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#25 | |
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fakepeeps7
Site Helper
Join Date: Jan 2006 |
Quote:
Nothing that requires memory, I hope. A new study that came out recently confirms what I've suspected for a long time: listening to music is not good for your memory. It used to drive me crazy when my friends would put on music when we were trying to study. I'd basically have to shut my books and wait for the rest of them to finish (and, consequently, get nothing done). Our brains are not the multi-tasking machines we like to think they are. |
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