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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 5:00 PM
Default Thoughts on the Pope's visit to the UK
The Pope is currently visiting the UK - the first such visit since the 1980s. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is anyone planning to see the Pope? Is it still relevant for the Pope to visit the United Kingdom?

And what about Britiain's historical relationship with the Papacy - should it be mentioned as much as it has in the media?

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 5:05 PM
I live in the UK, his visit is being payed for by us basically. They are using tax money. My parents were saying they use tax money to pay for NHS, emergency services and schooling, not the pope to come here and spend 12 million plus OF OUR money.

Are you questionning my badassness? I <3 Glee GO TEAM PUCK :D
Scholar
#3 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 5:13 PM
I read there were priest/nun rape victims holding up signs with pictures of themselves saying what age they were abused.

...being as I don't live in the UK, I really don't have any opinions on his visit; just him and the Vatican itself.

Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God?
Top Secret Researcher
#4 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 6:53 PM
I think Henry VIII would be amused. And perhaps put you all to death.
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
18th Sep 2010 at 7:47 PM
This message has been deleted by Wojtek. Reason: velocitygrass
Scholar
#5 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 8:18 PM
Uh. She said the 1980s. Which, encompasses the whole decade. Like the 60s encompasses the whole decade of 1960-1969

Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God?
Site Helper
#6 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 8:34 PM
The pope should pay for his own visit. It must be like a slap in the face to the British taxpayers who were abused by the clergy to have to pay for this.
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 8:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
Lemon&Lime: The Pope Jan Paweł II visited Britain in 1982 not 1980.

MaydayParade: Why is the current Pope so unpopular in Britain? Was the previous Pope Jan Paweł II respected?


*John Paul.

There's been 2 attempted assasinations already. The current pope is somewhat unpopular due to this child abuse scandal that currently shades the catholic church.

In my household we generally dislike the pope, not because of religion, my mothers best friend is catholic, but because he is wasting tax payers money, insisting on us paying for his visit.

Are you questionning my badassness? I <3 Glee GO TEAM PUCK :D
Scholar
Original Poster
#8 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 9:46 PM
Personally I myself am considoring becoming a Catholic. Purely because that branch of Christianity has always fascinated me and I'm currently active on catholic forums trying to find out more about it.

What I gather so far about the opinions of people on the forums regarding the child abuse scandal is that of utter dismay. The Catholic people aren't taking the Pope's side very much in this. I do disagree with us having to pay for his visit though - sure we shouldn't charge him for certain things such as food (that's just basic hospitality) but considoring how much wealth the Vatican has, I thought they'd at least contribute...

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




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Scholar
#9 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 9:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon&Lime
<snip> but considoring how much wealth the Vatican has, I thought they'd at least contribute...



The Pope contributed, I believe 10 million, as did we. So we went halvsies.
Scholar
Original Poster
#10 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 9:55 PM
Oh we did? My bad! In that case I don't have much of a problem with it, it's hard to expect the Pope to pay for our Police to protect him - afterall, it is our people who are trying to attack him. Sometimes.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




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Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
18th Sep 2010 at 10:19 PM
This message has been deleted by Wojtek. Reason: velocitygrass
Scholar
Original Poster
#11 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
Oh my I forgot about the 's' sorry. I'm used to 'in the sixties' thing.
You also pay money to maintain the Royal Palace. Why should you care? Your country is sooo rich and prosperous that it shouldn't be a problem. I wrote Jan Paweł II because it means John Paul II only in a different language. Child abuse also existed when John Paul II was the Pope. You didn't protest when he visited Britain in 1892 did you?


Child abuse was kinda relatively unknown around that time. Well actually it was always known, just kinda brushed under the carpet. It was the Victorians who were the first people to discuss it openly however, but it was unlikely to be in newspapers of the period. Therefore, not going to be on the average person's mind.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




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Site Helper
#12 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 10:34 PM
The issue people have with the pope is that he's impeding the investigation. He may not have actually molested anyone... but if he's preventing the authorities from finding out who did, that's pretty bad, too.
Field Researcher
#13 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 10:35 PM
He is coming to Spain too. With money which comes from the contributors... and that is what I personally hate. Why do I have to pay with my taxes the visit of a man I don't even care about?
Top Secret Researcher
#14 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 10:44 PM
As for paying for the visit... Don't host nations usually pay for the visits of foreign dignitaries? I know he's a religious leader, but he's also the leader of Vatican City. That's especially true with security issues - while every foreign dignitary that graces someone with their presence brings their own security, it's not exactly a blank check or else you'd be inviting armies in to ensure the safety of some people. In fact, I imagine it's only not the case when the host nation is so freaking poor or security poor that they can't afford or provide the security. And Vatican City might have more gold in the toilets than Glenn Beck's avarice could imagine, but I'm not totally clear that they've got the expanded resources outside of VC required in the UK (where, as everyone's kind of implies, there's a lot of bad blood right now.). Plus, it's really embarrassing when one of your citizens shoots a visiting head of state or leader in a world religion while they're visiting your country. That's the sort of stuff that really gives fuel to the tinfoil hat crowd.
Top Secret Researcher
#15 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 11:00 PM
I like Pope Benedict. And I always Liked John Pawel too.

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Inventor
#16 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 11:02 PM
1892 Wojtek??

We Dutch told John Paul what we thought of him when he visited the Netherlands in 1985. There used to be this picture of my gay uncle throwing paint-bombs at him from the protesting crowd showcased on my gran's toilet. (Where all newspaper clippings of family were showcased.)

I do agree with Mistermook that it's a visit from not only a religious leader, but also a country leader. People also have the right to protest when a King or President of a country of which they don't like the political stance visits. I guess it comes with the job.
Lab Assistant
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18th Sep 2010 at 11:15 PM
This message has been deleted by Wojtek. Reason: velocitygrass
Lab Assistant
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18th Sep 2010 at 11:22 PM
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Field Researcher
#17 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
Spain is a catholic country and I don't understand why people oppose the Pope. You don't have to agree with what Vatican does but the Pope is merely a representative of the Catholics and his role is to enlighten people or cheer them up and give them support they need so much.


No no, Spain is NOT a Catholic country, as the Constitution states. And personally, I would prefer not to give any support to an Institution that contributed during 36 years with the dictatorship.
I understand that he is also the leader of Vatican city, but I think I have the right of not wanting to pay with my taxes his visit, as well as I don't like to pay for the visit of other leaders.
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 11:29 PM
I've been living here in the UK for three weeks now for a study abroad program. In my journalism class we've talked about the protests against his visit and how this is a primarily atheist nation who really does not want him to be visiting. There have been loads of protests.

I really don't know what affect the pope's visit is having on the citizens of the UK, as obviously I'm just here on a visa. I went to see him today over at Hyde Park corner. I thought it would be cool to see the pope. I'm Jewish, so it wasn't a religious thing, I just think the Vatican/Pope is really interesting, so I wanted to see him in the popemobile. But yeah, I don't see how his visit is affecting the people beyond the traffic and closed roads and packed tube stations today, but I might be missing something as an American citizen.

Edit//

Re: the child abuse scandal.. it's not just a British thing. There have been countless scandals back where I'm from, too (Boston). A lot of my friends have lost faith in the church because of it. I don't think it's the pope's fault that certain priests have done that, but it is his (and John Pauls) for not doing more about it and trying to prevent it. The Vatican seems to like to forget about things and sweep them under the rug.
Inventor
#19 Old 18th Sep 2010 at 11:52 PM Last edited by appelsapgodin : 19th Sep 2010 at 12:08 AM. Reason: changed word for clearer meaning
Why 1892, Wojtek, because you typo-ed that after nagging someone for saying 80s, that's why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
Child abuse also existed when John Paul II was the Pope. You didn't protest when he visited Britain in 1892 did you?


I think we have every right to protest, and I am proud of my uncle standing up for his rights. I know how you stand on homosexuality and I choose to see that stance as discriminative and bigotrous.

If the Pope comes here, I will be the one standing there with paint bombs and many with me. Because the Catholic church did try to cover up the child abuse to save their own faces, because they are against abortion and free choice. Because they forbid the use of condoms in countries where millions die of AIDS. Because they still oppress women and gays. Those are acts that are shameful and hideous.

This is not an organisation I want my country to waste money on, or organise a jolly welcome for a visit from their leader and neither should the UK.
Site Helper
#20 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by appelsapgodin
Because they condone the use of condoms in countries where millions die of AIDS.


I think you meant something like "forbid", not "condone". But I agree with everything you said.
Inventor
#21 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 12:06 AM
Forbid might have been a better word, but it's late and English is also not my first language (and I had the word condom in my head which sounds a bit alike)... but I will edit for clearer understanding. Thanks for pointing it out.
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
19th Sep 2010 at 12:25 AM
This message has been deleted by Wojtek. Reason: velocitygrass
Inventor
#22 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 12:36 AM Last edited by appelsapgodin : 19th Sep 2010 at 4:48 AM. Reason: typo and I could word it better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
The child abuse is only your excuse to hate the Catholic Church, its people and the Pope. Read more about anti-Catholic and anti-Eastern propaganda your country serves you and choke with the lies and stereotypical rubbish your 'wonderful' country offers you. You think homosexuality, abortion etc. are only dependent on the Church in Catholic countries. Bullshit! If you were more educated you'd know that in Poland women who were raped or pregnancy threatens either her or the embryo's life are allowed to have abortion. It's against the Church and priests oppose abortion but Poland is a secular country and it's the government not the Church that rules this country.


Excuse me? I gave a lot more other arguments than just the child abuse. I don't think oppression is only done by the church, but they are great contributors. And I didn't say anything about Poland. You are trying to put words in my mouth I didn't use.

You don't come up with counterarguments when people have a solid reason to disagree with you. Your only answer seems to be rudeness.

I am sorry, but with this you just proved to me that you cannot directly answer a question, or grasp simple concepts and have an intelligent debate about these subjects, so I won't bother trying to have one with you anymore.
Field Researcher
#23 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 12:37 AM
I don't understand why you always mix your anti-communism in every debate, no matter what the topic is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
It would be a huge privilege for me to see the Queen. Of course there would be some stupid and ignorant people to actually oppose her visit but what can I do about such stupid and careless people?

The fact that some people don't respect/appreciate the visit of some countries' queens or kings does not make them stupid or ignorant. I don't like monarchy as an institution, and I don't really feel any love for the king of my own country, and I would not consider myself stupid or ignorant.
Lab Assistant
#24 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 12:40 AM
Yes, as a foreign dignitary, the Pope's visit would be covered at least partly by the host nation. He was invited, and it would be very bad form and also very embarassing for the UK government if they invited the Pope over, then turned around and told him to pay for it himself. All foreign dignitaries are given this treatment as a show of curtesy, and a country would look very insular if they never invited foreign leaders over. My government invited George W. Bush over when he was president, and we as a people certainly weren't happy about it; his decisions and ignorance contributed to the deaths of countless innocent people. As far as many people were concerned, he was nothing better than a war criminal. Because our government invited him, we had to foot the bill for his security, which as you can imagine was huge. There were demonstrations and protests when he got here, but they were peaceful. Even though I did not agree with him being here, I do see this from my government's point of view; as the representatives of our country, it would look extremely bad if they invited some leaders over while excluding others. George Bush had to be treated as not just a man, but as the representative of his people, and because our country enjoys good relations with America, our government gritted their teeth and bore it. Tony Blair came over a little while ago, but because he is no longer a dignitary of importance, the state did not invite him, or help in any way to pay for his security. As it turned out, he would have been better off if they had. But violent protest always and only reflects badly on the host nation and the people, not on the person protested against. I am no fan of Tony Blair, but I was mortified at what happened.

No one has or should dispute the right of people to protest; they have good reasons for doing so. But many Catholics in the UK do want to see him, and that fact should also be respected.
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 19th Sep 2010 at 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojtek
You also pay money to maintain the Royal Palace. Why should you care? Your country is sooo rich and prosperous that it shouldn't be a problem. I wrote Jan Paweł II because it means John Paul II only in a different language. Child abuse also existed when John Paul II was the Pope. You didn't protest when he visited Britain in 1892 did you?


*1982, and I wasn't even born then so how could I of possibly protested when I wasn't even born, but I'm pretty sure I'd be protesting.

And in case you haven't noticed, Britain is in about 120 billion debt.

Are you questionning my badassness? I <3 Glee GO TEAM PUCK :D
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