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Forum Resident
#751 Old 13th Aug 2014 at 10:32 PM
I'm interested in potentially starting this challenge. Should I wait until version 3.0 is released or should I start now? It looks like a really interesting way to play TS2!

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
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Field Researcher
#752 Old 13th Aug 2014 at 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSDuckie
I'm interested in potentially starting this challenge. Should I wait until version 3.0 is released or should I start now? It looks like a really interesting way to play TS2!


Setting up the world - building it, putting in sims, etc. - takes up a lot of time. So if you haven't got an established world set up already, I suggest that you start building yours. Probably, by the time version 3.0 is done, you're just about done with the world building. Even if you're done before then, or you have an established world, you can start playing with the 3.0 teaser. It's a really good idea to implement the rules slowly (say, per chapter, or something), instead of trying to do it all at the same time. There's so much to this challenge, it can get overwhelming if you try to do it all at the same time. So playing with the 3.0 teaser will get you started and you can then add what's new in the 3.0 full version when it's ready.

But that's just my opinion, after having tried this challenge once before, having had to stop fairly soon after and going for a new try now.
Field Researcher
#753 Old 14th Aug 2014 at 6:23 PM Last edited by samantha_kathy : 14th Aug 2014 at 10:56 PM.
I just finished setting up the Royal Court. Moved in all the players that are there at the start of the story. Set up the families. Moved in servants. The only thing left to do was give the king and queen an infant child, as I'd rolled. I used the simblender to get her pregnant and had her give birth right away -- to a triplet! It's the first ever triplet in my game since I installed triplets & quads about a month ago and of course it had to happen here! A boy and two girls, with the boy being born first. I just calculated the queen's health score, then the births and at the end of it she did survive. However, she went from a good health (73) to a poor health (36) score, since the first birth was poor, the second terrible and the last was (luckily) good. Guess even being queen won't help you when you're giving birth.

ETA:

And, as always, once I start diving into this challenge, I end up with questions. Way back when, I asked a question about heritability of gentry titles, which you answered wonderfully. But, I now have another question that's got more to do with how people are addressed than anything else. Here's what you said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
As to the titles for the lower gentry: again these are not heritable per se, but the children of a gentleman would certainly still be considered gentry class, i.e. level 6 and the same is true for the esquire, which is a title appended to the surname, i.e. John Doe, Esq. The titles Esquire and Gentleman allow the owner to be called "Mr." whereas the titles of the upper gentry allow for the owner to be called "Sir." Nobles may be called "Lord."


So if I have a Baronet, he'd be Sir John Kane, Baronet of Dillon. However, our dear Sir John has a younger brother, Robert. Would Robert also be called "Sir"? (Or, would the younger brother of a Duke be called Lord, the younger sister of a gentleman 'mrs.' (or miss, I'd guess)) And how about their kids? On top of that, if you're a knight (as in, knighthood, not the title), like Robert is, does the military have some sort of title? He's a Master Knight-at-Arms. I'm guessing he'd be called Sir Robert Kane, Master Knight-at-Arms, but I could very well be wrong. I find these titles so difficult (I've got the same problem when I'm reading regency romance )

ETA 2:

I was just reading the section on education and I think I've found an error. When talking about university, it says:

"University terms are 72 hours for Maxis default, and a full degree requires the completion of 8 terms, or four years of study. One academic year, or two semesters, equals one calendar year in the main neighborhood, so that students who enter University at 18 will graduate eight years later at
the age of 26."

There are 8 terms, with 2 terms a year, making for 4 full years of study. So, students who enter university at 18 will graduate 4 years later (not 8) at the age of 22, by my reckoning.
Field Researcher
#754 Old 15th Aug 2014 at 7:50 PM
Hi, it's me again. I feel like I'm hogging this thread, but I tried to figure out how the aspiration types I normally play would translate to a warwickshire neighborhood. So this is what I came up with, and I thought I'd share:



So, what I normally do is pick the main aspiration by a random roll when they become teens. Then I look at the character I have and decide which sub-type fits with their behavior I've seen so far. Their secondary aspiration is determined by a dice roll: 1 or 2 means the secondary aspiration is the main aspiration of the father, 3 or 4 means the secondary aspiration is the same as the mother, 5 or 6 means I get to pick which secondary aspiration they get, either the mother's or the father's. If the secondary aspiration they roll is already the primary aspiration, the secondary aspiration of the father or mother is used. For instance, I roll fortune as the main aspiration and the father's aspiration as a secondary, however the father's aspiration is also fortune. I would then take the father's secondary aspiration, knowledge, as the secondary aspiration for the teen. I consider this to be parental influence.

When they become young adults, I consider them to have seen enough of the world to form their own opinions and they get the opportunity to change their aspiration. Roll 1, 2 or 3 and they keep their aspirations as they are. Roll 4, 5 or 6 and they change their main aspiration to whatever fits their storyline at that point in time, while their previous main aspiration becomes their secondary aspiration. For example, our teen from before is a fortune/knowledge sim. When he turns young adult, I roll a 5. So now that he's seen something of the world, he's decided that family's more important than fortune. So he changes his aspiration into family/fortune.

The main aspiration gives a sims goals in life in broad strokes, according to which sub-type they are. The secondary aspiration gives more direction. Last, their alignment, wants and storyline tell me what the sims actions will be. For instance, our sim, a baronet's son who's now a family/fortune sim, is an outside oriented sim who's concerned with standing. He's also a very virtuous sim who wants to marry and have a baby. In the storyline he's made a good match with a woman from a good family. He gets a baby, a daughter, and decides to arrange a good match for her - perhaps the baron's son? That will increase his social standing according to his aspirations, is a virtuous action and satisfies a want (see his child get married), while progressing the storyline of a future baronet who wants to make powerful connections so he can land himself and his heirs a noble title.
Instructor
Original Poster
#755 Old 18th Aug 2014 at 3:11 AM Last edited by M3g7e : 18th Aug 2014 at 3:25 AM.
PSDuckie, Welcome! I second what Samantha_Kathy says--get started on nh building and setup. You'll have plenty to keep you busy till the final version comes out.

Samantha-Kathy, first let me say congrats on your triplets! I have visions of your King widowed with 4 children if ACR kicks in and your Queen does not rally. I think a royal physician may be in order. What a cool way to start your nh story out, though--I can just imagine all the trouble those three will get up to!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha_Kathy
I was just reading the section on education and I think I've found an error. When talking about university, it says:

"University terms are 72 hours for Maxis default, and a full degree requires the completion of 8 terms, or four years of study. One academic year, or two semesters, equals one calendar year in the main neighborhood, so that students who enter University at 18 will graduate eight years later at
the age of 26."

There are 8 terms, with 2 terms a year, making for 4 full years of study. So, students who enter university at 18 will graduate 4 years later (not 8) at the age of 22, by my reckoning.


I see your confusion and will mark this for clarification. It should be that each semester, or 72 hours, is 1 day, so all of university is 8 years total. That is why sending a student at 18 means graduation at 26.

As to titles, and forms of address: geez I think these are hard, too. So far as I understand, the children and grandchildren of titled nobles are referred to by their patriarch's title, as a form of a courtesy title. See, for example, this discussion or tthis one . As far as knights--it would depend upon whether they were members of the peerage or not. If they are of the gentry class, their sons would be X the Younger, rather than Lord X. For your younger brother, I think it makes perfect sense to have him titled by his military rank. If your baronet has a son, he will be Sir Kane the Younger.

I think your discussion of alignment and aspiration is very interesting. I think you're really going to be surprised when you see the final 3.0. You have anticipated an entire section of Chapter 3 that does not appear in the teaser--namely the aspiration and alignment discussion. There are 18 separate designations, depending upon moral alignment (good/neutral/evil) and aspiration. There are also specific benefits and drawbacks for each, making one's moral alignment more influential in game outcomes. On a similar note, 3.0 also adds ethical alignment, which gives more expression and depth to the way that alignment functions in the game. The final version of chapter 3 is much more developed in terms of game theory and application than what you see in 2.0.

Speaking of 3.0--here's a quick update on progress. Chapter 5, the law and order chapter, is nearly finished. The entire system is revised in 3.0, so no more equations and no more single random rolls. There is a more developed, nuanced system that pairs criminal competency with specific situational modifiers. In phase 1, you will determine the success or failure of a criminal attempt. Murder, for example, will be a turn based mini-game where an assailant attacks a victim and each has a turn to play. Outcomes affect the total health score, integrating crime with real in-game details specific to the sims you're playing. If a victim fights off their attacker, the murder attempt fails--and the crime may be investigated. In phase 2, crimes will be investigated and evidence will be gathered. In phase 3, there will be various court cases you may choose between depending upon the crime committed--the romance case will be very similar to what you see in 2.0, probably the only thing from 2.0 that will make it into the final version of 3.0. So that's a brief rundown of Chapter 5.

What's still left? About half of Chapter 4 (making alliances) and the appendices (namely some tables on self-sustaining economy, waging war ...) and some front matter. That's where I am now .... so getting nearer and nearer the station and writing furiously in these last few days of summer. Still some ways to go. But I'm getting there!
Test Subject
#756 Old 19th Aug 2014 at 6:27 AM
You're getting me super excited for the full 3.0, m3g7e! Of course being me the murder, war, and alliances especially intrigue me I don't know who to try murdering first - Duke Charles could stand to benefit from killing off his eldest brother, Duke Henry, and betrothing the resulting orphan to his eldest son, so as to concentrate the family titles on his descendants, but I can't see him committing murder... Especially when he can just ensure his brother's wife doesn't birth a son and proceed with the betrothal from there. That method will require more patience of course, since Lord Henry still needs to die before Lord Charles's son gets the title, but considering that Lord Charles is on good terms with his brother and that Lord Henry's title is currently only good for getting a seat on the privy council and a job as Lord Chancellor, and Lord Charles's son already has a seat on the privy council and a future royal appointment ensured, I can't justify him doing it even though it would make things more interesting. Perhaps when the next generation grows up something will fit!

Speaking of Lord Henry's useless title, I of course will be testing the war rules in an effort to reclaim Normandy for my kingdom! I just finished rotation 7, meaning once I'm out of building mode and get my sims moved over to my new laptop I'll be starting a spring rotation, i.e. campaign season! The campaign in Normandy will be resumed from last spring, with the alliance rules also being consulted as the Norman lord form an alliance against the Albanian and Cornish lords, with the Emperor of the Far East and the Holy Reman Emperor possibly providing support for one of the alliances as well.. I'm super excited to see where that storyline takes me, since it's one that's been in the works since the beginning and is the closest I have to an overarching, continuous storyline, even though I haven't done much with it since last spring, when a campaign attempted and failed to reclaim Normandy.

I also have some other situations I'm wondering if the rules will adapt for - for instance it seems natural that my fortune aspiration king would attempt colonization of the fertile island nation, and he's already sent one nobleman there on a trip to survey the land (technically the nobleman brought his family there so the kids could be healed, but he can multitask, yes?). Still, I don't want to make it /too/ easy, so I'm thinking I'll round up a group of colonists (may have to go into CAS for this) and have them and the native people fight over the land. If the colonists lose, any survivors return and colonization is delayed for now. If the island people lose, the colony is added as a subneighborhood for colonists to live in, although I'll again leave potential for more conflict in the future, adding a new group of natives if too many of the others have died out.

I'm also adding more of a fantasy element to my game - the March of Kent already is ruled by a wizard with part-sylph (part-alien) relatives whose castle is maintained by a golem (servo), and now I'm thinking of marrying the Marquis's son to a naiad (I'd make a sim with a fantasy skin and eyes and give her a mermaid outfit for at least her swimwear for when she reverts to her true form) and throwing some dryads (plantsims) onto the lot to farm for the Marquis. Add that to the default replacement robots I found that turn the bots into "enchanted" household objects, which I'm going to use to make life easier for my golem and make the lack of any other servants more plausible, and you've got a truly magical place. Perhaps some sims won't like all the supernatural activity and will try to persuade the king to do something about it? Or if one of them turns up with an evil alignment they might do some mischief with their magic...

Anyway, hopefully 3.0 will be out by the time I'm done building so I can use the new rules to play out these storylines. I'm going to restart my blog once I have this all set up, so you all can be updated through that: I was getting kind of discouraged because my female main characters kept dying, ending storylines rather abruptly and awkwardly, but now that the next generation is growing up with the new health system I should hopefully be prepared for any deaths and be able to plan the story accordingly. For now, my blog is here, with a family tree, a few unfinished stories, and even a few pictures, although not nearly as many as I'd like.

Well, that was enough talking for me! I love reading about all your games, so hopefully you guys don't mind that I babbled
Field Researcher
#757 Old 20th Aug 2014 at 5:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Samantha-Kathy, first let me say congrats on your triplets! I have visions of your King widowed with 4 children if ACR kicks in and your Queen does not rally. I think a royal physician may be in order. What a cool way to start your nh story out, though--I can just imagine all the trouble those three will get up to!


Oh, there’ll be plenty of mayhem surrounding the royal family


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
I see your confusion and will mark this for clarification. It should be that each semester, or 72 hours, is 1 day, so all of university is 8 years total. That is why sending a student at 18 means graduation at 26.


Ah, that makes more sense!


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
As to titles, and forms of address: geez I think these are hard, too.


Luckily, it’s sims and not real world, so I will just do the best I can and if I make a mistake, well, it’s the sims! (Such a handy excuse )

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
I think your discussion of alignment and aspiration is very interesting. I think you're really going to be surprised when you see the final 3.0. You have anticipated an entire section of Chapter 3 that does not appear in the teaser--namely the aspiration and alignment discussion. There are 18 separate designations, depending upon moral alignment (good/neutral/evil) and aspiration. There are also specific benefits and drawbacks for each, making one's moral alignment more influential in game outcomes. On a similar note, 3.0 also adds ethical alignment, which gives more expression and depth to the way that alignment functions in the game. The final version of chapter 3 is much more developed in terms of game theory and application than what you see in 2.0.


Figures I’d manage to anticipate something like that. I’m really looking forward to that section! So much love for it already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Speaking of 3.0--here's a quick update on progress. Chapter 5, the law and order chapter, is nearly finished. The entire system is revised in 3.0, so no more equations and no more single random rolls. There is a more developed, nuanced system that pairs criminal competency with specific situational modifiers. In phase 1, you will determine the success or failure of a criminal attempt. Murder, for example, will be a turn based mini-game where an assailant attacks a victim and each has a turn to play. Outcomes affect the total health score, integrating crime with real in-game details specific to the sims you're playing. If a victim fights off their attacker, the murder attempt fails--and the crime may be investigated. In phase 2, crimes will be investigated and evidence will be gathered. In phase 3, there will be various court cases you may choose between depending upon the crime committed--the romance case will be very similar to what you see in 2.0, probably the only thing from 2.0 that will make it into the final version of 3.0. So that's a brief rundown of Chapter 5.


Oh, so cool! Especially with a couple of things I’ve got planned! This will be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
What's still left? About half of Chapter 4 (making alliances) and the appendices (namely some tables on self-sustaining economy, waging war ...) and some front matter. That's where I am now .... so getting nearer and nearer the station and writing furiously in these last few days of summer. Still some ways to go. But I'm getting there!


So close, we’re getting so close. It sounds like you’re really nearly there, and I’m so excited to see the end product. *waves pompoms*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I also have some other situations I'm wondering if the rules will adapt for - for instance it seems natural that my fortune aspiration king would attempt colonization of the fertile island nation, and he's already sent one nobleman there on a trip to survey the land (technically the nobleman brought his family there so the kids could be healed, but he can multitask, yes?). Still, I don't want to make it /too/ easy, so I'm thinking I'll round up a group of colonists (may have to go into CAS for this) and have them and the native people fight over the land. If the colonists lose, any survivors return and colonization is delayed for now. If the island people lose, the colony is added as a subneighborhood for colonists to live in, although I'll again leave potential for more conflict in the future, adding a new group of natives if too many of the others have died out.


I should think you could adapt the rules for this, regardless of whether it’s actually discussed. After all, there are rules for waging war between nobles and their fiefs, which would translate well. I’m actually planning to (eventually, it’s a long way off) have a war between my kingdom and the neighboring republic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I'm also adding more of a fantasy element to my game - the March of Kent already is ruled by a wizard with part-sylph (part-alien) relatives whose castle is maintained by a golem (servo), and now I'm thinking of marrying the Marquis's son to a naiad (I'd make a sim with a fantasy skin and eyes and give her a mermaid outfit for at least her swimwear for when she reverts to her true form) and throwing some dryads (plantsims) onto the lot to farm for the Marquis. Add that to the default replacement robots I found that turn the bots into "enchanted" household objects, which I'm going to use to make life easier for my golem and make the lack of any other servants more plausible, and you've got a truly magical place. Perhaps some sims won't like all the supernatural activity and will try to persuade the king to do something about it? Or if one of them turns up with an evil alignment they might do some mischief with their magic...


I rarely, if ever, use supernatural beings in my game. But lately I’ve begun exploring possible storylines in my main hood that could incorporate them. Of course, in my Warwickshire hood there’s already witches, as they’re the healers. The aliens are faeries (I already had a faeries multi-PT mod). Servos can be discovered (as can the other robots) because it’s a modern day (-ish) hood, although it will be restricted to upper classes for use. An evil lord could have his astrologer raise a zombie army. But werewolves and vampires (I think those are the only ones I’m missing)? No clue how to truly integrate them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I was getting kind of discouraged because my female main characters kept dying, ending storylines rather abruptly and awkwardly, but now that the next generation is growing up with the new health system I should hopefully be prepared for any deaths and be able to plan the story accordingly.


I always find it interesting when something unexpected happens. (Triplets, a sudden death, a monarch who finds himself with low enough royal favor points that he’s in serious danger of getting deposed…). It forces me to be creative with storylines and that makes for interesting and unique stories. As for main characters dying…I usually center a storyline on a household, so the storyline will continue, though it might wildly go off course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Well, that was enough talking for me! I love reading about all your games, so hopefully you guys don't mind that I babbled


Nope, as long as you don’t mind I babble as well.

Now, before I stop talking, I did have a few questions.

Is the clergy that’s appointed a royal appointment? Are knights (as in, the fighting kind)? I'm leaning towards no for knights, but I'm really unsure about the clergy, because they are appointed by the king - right?

Another question I had is about taking the career path of going into a cloister (either a monastery or a convent). The rules for entering the cloister are clear to me, as is the fact that from among those that have taken that path members of the clergy can be chosen. (At least, I hope I got that right). But how about leaving the cloister? Can, say, a peasant enter the cloister, be elevated in rank after say a decade because he's appointed as an almoner, and then leave the cloister and his position as clergy to return to a normal life with wife and kids? Would he keep his elevated rank? What about a nun? Can she leave the convent and get married after all?

Yeah, I'll stop now. Enough talking for one time
Instructor
Original Poster
#758 Old 23rd Aug 2014 at 7:58 PM
Radium, it sounds like you've got a great storyline there--I have got to get caught up reading everyone's stories. But I love your neighborhood--wow! You've really done a tremendous amount of work there, and it shows in your detailed narrative with lots of twists and turns. Really cool! I especially love what you've done with the supernaturals. I rarely play with any, except witches (which I need!) and plant sims (since those happen rather frequently in my nh), but I have never figured out a good way to incorporate werewolves, vampires, etc, etc --they just haven't fit into my story very well. It's neat that you've even found a really cool way to use the servo as a golem. I love that.

Believe me, everyone, I am more anxious than anyone else to finish 3.0. And I swear I am working on it every chance I get. I am in chapter 5 right now, working on accidental deaths (which is actually designed to accompany manslaughter and suicide--great fun, I tell you--hope nobody's really been watching my google searches. I'm sure they've been quite interesting lately. ) The last chart for this section will be for poisoning deaths, and that one is giving me some trouble figuring out how to keep the info organized in a sensible way, but I think I've got it sorted out.

So, yes--soon I hope Radium (and everyone else reading) .... soon! I don't suppose anyone's interested in writing an index for this thing? or maybe the full table of contents? (if you're seriously interested, pm me and I'll consider it--I feel pretty swamped just getting the writing done, and I'm totally ready to have this finished!!!!!!) Sorry for the long wait, folks--but thank you so much for your patience!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha_Kathy
I should think you could adapt the rules for this, regardless of whether it’s actually discussed. After all, there are rules for waging war between nobles and their fiefs, which would translate well. I’m actually planning to (eventually, it’s a long way off) have a war between my kingdom and the neighboring republic.


Yes, exactly. I don't think you'd need to do much modifying, actually, since you could use the rules for alliances and waging war to carry out this story line--just like Samantha_Kathy points out here. Also, your fortune king might start up a trading company in this other land as a means to colonize it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha_Kathy
Is the clergy that’s appointed a royal appointment?


No--not with the way the rules are written now. They would be clerical appointments. I realize this separation of church and state did not exist in the Renaissance, especially after Henry VIII declared himself the head of the church, but keeping them separate made it easier (for me) to deal with in terms of game mechanics. That said, players are always welcome to add their own royal appointments, and I think it would be fine to consider the upper levels of the church, i.e. Archbishop, to be a royal appointment. You would want to add that to the game. As it is right now, those clerical appointments do require a certain number of royal favor points to secure--it might make sense to go through the process for securing a royal appointment in addition to following the rules for the clerical appointment. Knights--as in the fighting kind--are simply a military rank, so any young gentleman or noble trained in the military can accede to that rank without the king's express appointment to it. Now, here again, this is in the interest of simplicity (I know, what a word to use with respect to Warwickshire, right? )--but seriously, there are so many 'honorary' titles of knight and so many dignitary orders of knighthood (that don't fight, never did)--whose inclusion in those orders were at the pleasure of the king, etc, etc--I just didn't deal with any of that for the game because it boggles my brain. However, that is not to say that those things can't happen in game--but it would be player designed, to support a specific neighborhood story, and is not really covered by game rules. So, I say if you want an honorary order of the garter or special Knighthood of Green Gauze or whatever--go for it! But, knights are not appointed by the crown, and neither are church officials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha_Kathy
Can, say, a peasant enter the cloister, be elevated in rank after say a decade because he's appointed as an almoner, and then leave the cloister and his position as clergy to return to a normal life with wife and kids? Would he keep his elevated rank? What about a nun? Can she leave the convent and get married after all?


First off, you've got the process down--you are correct about getting into the cloister, etc. As to leaving: sims can leave the cloister at any time. In 2.0 this was not the case (you had to roll every season to determine their decision, as I recall)--but for 3.0, it is up to the player to decide what the sim wants to do. Nuns who leave may certainly marry--it is probably the primary reason for them wanting to leave, actually. Cloistered positions do not raise one's class station; however, clerical positions can--though it would be hard to go very far since the sim needs to fulfill three of the four requirements to get the promotion, and most peasants will never have the education to get very far up the chain. Now a peasant who becomes an almoner and leaves the cloister, will still be a peasant when he leaves; however, he does have other options than simply farming (which is pretty much all he could do in 2.0). For example, he can secure employment since this is determined now by education and royal favor, rather than class and station--so with his 12 education points, which he must have had to become almoner, he can get a job and progress up to level 4 (see p. 63, on employment opportunities) and of course, he can always try to get a royal appointment--which can elevate his class if he gets a promotion there (see p. 106, under the discussion of the positions).

And please, no one worry about babbling! It's all interesting to me!!
Field Researcher
#759 Old 24th Aug 2014 at 10:53 AM Last edited by samantha_kathy : 24th Aug 2014 at 7:39 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Cloistered positions do not raise one's class station; however, clerical positions can--though it would be hard to go very far since the sim needs to fulfill three of the four requirements to get the promotion, and most peasants will never have the education to get very far up the chain. Now a peasant who becomes an almoner and leaves the cloister, will still be a peasant when he leaves; however, he does have other options than simply farming (which is pretty much all he could do in 2.0). For example, he can secure employment since this is determined now by education and royal favor, rather than class and station--so with his 12 education points, which he must have had to become almoner, he can get a job and progress up to level 4 (see p. 63, on employment opportunities) and of course, he can always try to get a royal appointment--which can elevate his class if he gets a promotion there (see p. 106, under the discussion of the positions).


See, the way I was thinking it, the monks (or nuns) would teach basic reading, writing and arithmetic to everyone coming into the cloister - certainly they would if the novices were only teens. Then, doing things like gardening can gain badge points. Because they're able to read, they can study skills - like counselling and anger management. So their time in the cloister could actually raise the education level - a peasant going into the cloister can therefore get access to education he'd never have been able to get otherwise. Maybe not enough to jump several ranks in social class, but definitely enough to climb up a level or two either by getting a clerical position or by getting a job once he leaves due to the education he got. Really, if looking at it that way, it's a strategy to get ahead in life while working withing the system.

ETA: Quick question. Would it be possible (not game-wise, but logic-wise) for a King to marry his second cousin once removed? As in, the teenage granddaughter of his elderly first cousin once removed? Or would they be too closely related for such a match to be desirable?
Instructor
Original Poster
#760 Old 24th Aug 2014 at 7:40 PM
Oh, yes, absolutely--you're quite right! Those education points make a huge difference, since they give access to other opportunities not available otherwise. I think you've got the right idea here, and certainly the one that the game intends you to have. This is probably splitting hairs so bear with me--all I meant to say before is that it is not precisely the act of entering the cloister or advancing through that system which confers an elevation of class rank. In other words, education alone does not make one raise their class--they have to go do something with the education once they've got it, or they are just a really smart peasant. Or rather, if they are a really smart peasant, they'll seek those other opportunities that their education gives them--like the clergy positions, or a job, or whatever. Just like you said.

I think that the King could certainly marry a second cousin, once removed or not.
Test Subject
#761 Old 27th Aug 2014 at 10:25 AM Last edited by Yvi-sama : 27th Aug 2014 at 8:00 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
they have to go do something with the education once they've got it, or they are just a really smart peasant


Oh, ok I see I got it wrong. I used the monastry/convent to elevate serfs and peasants But then I will just corrects that by giving them a royal appointment and let them work until they are promoted and thereby earn a higher class-station.

If you are still interested in someone doing an index for Version 3.0 --> Here

I'm very interested in the "accidental death" section... My women die and the males get older and older

One thing I still haven't figured out is how much an appointment pays. Maybe you could give me/us a little suggestion on this matter? (same for a midwife's fee)

Thank you so much for your hard work

Edit: Maybe someone can help me with a pretty bad situation regarding my Royals:
Queen Anita birthed two children: the firstborn son Edward and daughter Laurelia. She suffered three miscarriages and is now no longer able to bear children. The problem is: Edward has a veeeery bad THS and will probably die very soon (smallpox )

Is there a way to gain another male heir (without killing the Queen and remarry) ?
I thought about a Royal Mistress, but recognizing her bastard-son would put him even behind Laurelia in line of succession...
If the Queen "decides" to enter a convent, would that solve my problem? Or would I still have to devorce her? (Kinda reminds me of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon )

How much RFPs and CFPs might it cost to simply place a recognized barstard in front of Laurelia...?

Edit 2: Oh! I could go ahead with the mistress and place Laurelia into a convent Poor kid...
Could I do that and later have her leave the convent to get married after her half-brother had been named King?

How would you people handle this?
Instructor
Original Poster
#762 Old 28th Aug 2014 at 1:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
If you are still interested in someone doing an index for Version 3.0 --> Here


Cool -- just pm me and we can get started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
I'm very interested in the "accidental death" section... My women die and the males get older and older


I know what you mean! These "accidents" may be self-inflicted or intentionally performed on another sim--things like burns, falls, exposure to the elements, etc. There is also a caveat for other accidents not specifically listed, i.e. for a head injury or a carriage accident, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
One thing I still haven't figured out is how much an appointment pays. Maybe you could give me/us a little suggestion on this matter? (same for a midwife's fee)


This would depend more specifically upon the economy in your neighborhood. Sims with royal and noble appointments may hold employment outside of the home to compensate them for their service to the crown--see p. 64. Basically, this means that any sim you have with a royal appointment can get a job and use that salary as their compensation for the royal appointment. The benefit of this is that families with multiple royal appointments will have several sources of income, making them noticeably wealthier than other sims of their class and station, since only one adult male is allowed to have employment outside the home otherwise. If you would prefer to compensate royal appointments without the use of outside employment, you may decide to pay them whatever seems fair (or not) within your nh economy, and take that money out of the lord's coffers, or the King's treasury. In this case, it is really up to you what to pay, and it would reflect the economy of your nh and the overall values of the realm, i.e. if one royal appointment is higher paid than another, it suggests a higher value placed upon that skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
Thank you so much for your hard work


Aww--thanks. I appreciate your interest! It's pretty clear you've taken a lot of time with this challenge. It's very humbling to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
Edit: Maybe someone can help me with a pretty bad situation regarding my Royals:
Queen Anita birthed two children: the firstborn son Edward and daughter Laurelia. She suffered three miscarriages and is now no longer able to bear children. The problem is: Edward has a veeeery bad THS and will probably die very soon (smallpox )


Yikes. Sad situation. Probably gonna make for a great story, though. **Reaches for popcorn** Can't wait to see how it turns out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
Is there a way to gain another male heir (without killing the Queen and remarry) ?
I thought about a Royal Mistress, but recognizing her bastard-son would put him even behind Laurelia in line of succession...
If the Queen "decides" to enter a convent, would that solve my problem? Or would I still have to devorce her? (Kinda reminds me of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon )


No, convent not gonna do much for that. If the queen is alive, the problem exists. And divorce--maybe. But that would heavily depend upon her clerical favor. Divorces should not be easy to get. Especially where bastard sons on the throne are the big reason behind them.

Is the illegitimate son already born? If not, all the King needs to do is marry the mistress and ba-da-bing ... Heir. The line of succession falls to the eldest male heir, regardless of legitimate female children. So, the new son would usurp Laurelia's place automatically if he is born to the King in a legitimate marriage.

If he is already born before marriage, that makes it a bit more interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
How much RFPs and CFPs might it cost to simply place a recognized barstard in front of Laurelia...?


Well, there really are no hard/fast rules for this written into the challenge. First off, Kings *can* recognize their bastard children in order to confer titles and estates upon them, which they often did. For example King Henry VIII had a bastard son, Henry Fitzroy whom he titled Duke of Richmond and Somerset. This child could never enter the line of succession since his mother was not royal and the child was conceived and born out of wedlock. All the more reason he wanted to get things right with Anne (oh well, that turned out a disaster ... ). As the challenge is written right now, there is no way for a King to elevate even a recognized bastard to the line of succession. That's not to say, however, that it could never happen ... but usually these things go very badly when they do. Because it would constitute a violation of the natural order to legitimate a royal bastard, the success or failure of such an act would depend upon the will of the people. How much do the people love their Queen? And Laurelia? How do they feel about the King now? What about this mistress woman? Is she loved or hated? What will they think if Laurelia is supplanted by her bastard? That's the real question there. The King could do this thing, but it should cost him dearly unless the Queen is hated, and the Mistress is loved. And the same questions would pertain to their relationships with the Church. Here's how I think I would play it: the King would lose the inverse number of royal favor points that his Queen has at the time of her death. (Wait--you are planning this elevation to happen after she dies, right? and marry the mistress? or no .... are you thinking that the bastard could be elevated with the queen ALIVE? in a convent? the horrors never cease!) Well, if that happened, heaven help you. OK. Getting my thoughts straight here:

If Queen is dead, and King marries the mistress .... it depends quite heavily on the way the queen was loved/hated, so the King would lose the inverse of the Queen's royal favor. If she was very loved, i.e. high royal favor of 2000 or more, this would mean a big drop in his favor, i.e. a loss of 2000 or more RFP. The same would be true of the CFP. If she is hated, however, i.e. negative royal favor, then the King would suffer much less, or perhaps not at all (here it matters more what the people think of him and that mistress ... hmmmm). What do you think would happen in such a case?

If the King proposes to do this thing with a living Queen. That's a whole different matter altogether. I think it would also involve those closest to her, those who are loyal to her. Putting her in a convent does not mean she isn't the Queen. And it does nothing to solve the line of succession. I think the King would lose a percentage of her royal favor every day like a steady bleed, unless she was hated. In which case, he might be able to divorce her, but that would depend upon her clerical favor.

What a sticky situation! I love it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
Edit 2: Oh! I could go ahead with the mistress and place Laurelia into a convent Poor kid...
Could I do that and later have her leave the convent to get married after her half-brother had been named King?


Well, sure ... but Laurelia is really not your problem, and placing her in a convent does nothing to remove her from the line of succession. And sure, she could leave the convent whenever to get married, or whatever else. But convents are not disappearing places: she still exists while she's there. I think that Queen is your biggest worry. Laurelia will inherit the crown if she has no legitimate brother to supplant her. And the brother will take the throne first, regardless of the age difference between them. If he is legitimated.

And if he is not ... war would be the most likely outcome. War between Laurelia's supporters and the brother's. What kind of power does this mistress's family have? Or the queen's? And could Laurelia win a war against her father?

Ugly business. But exactly the reason I love playing these sorts of scenarios. You're venturing into uncharted territory here. There is no particular set of rules to apply, but the things to keep in mind are favor and influence. If a King is going to defy the natural order (i.e. bring a bastard son to the throne), he is playing with fire. You just have to figure out how burned he's gonna get, and how big the fire really is. I don't think convents are the solution though.
Lab Assistant
#763 Old 29th Aug 2014 at 10:45 AM
Hello, everyone! I have goth crazy idea about playing the challenge togther! May be two countries or dynasties?
Space Pony
#764 Old 29th Aug 2014 at 7:05 PM
Well, I'm back too. It is kind of overwhelming to see so many people around (and so many long post to catch up with XD ). But it's great that this thread is active again and I can't wait to read some more stories. I too have been a busy bee, so I present you a new chapter of my story. It is a little depressing and it's not exactly one of my greatest works (it is a little rushed), but it's the third one and I was running out of ... well, not out of inspiration, but maybe my English is not as great as I have thought Ok, here's an excerpt (by the way, this chapter has *almost* nothing to do with Alleken, so it's written in the third-person point of view).

♕ Death is the only god who comes when you call ♔
“A story has no beginning or end: arbitrarily one chooses that moment of experience from which to look back or from which to look ahead.”



When has breathing become so agonizing? Living and breathing and just surviving until the next day was simply too excruciating.
"I am sorry ... Please forgive me..."
Her words are barely a whisper and her only companion is just an infant, so he doesn't react. He's just sitting there, left hand half in his mouth, because he is probably still teething and he has his own pain to occupy his thoughts with. Her two oldest daughters left early the same morning, probably to search for something to eat.
Read more...
Test Subject
#765 Old 14th Sep 2014 at 1:57 PM Last edited by Yvi-sama : 14th Sep 2014 at 2:15 PM.
Huhu,

I started a new round and added a few more parts of the challange-rules: RFP + CFP for "Family-Aspiration", Apprenticeships, Health-Tours, Knighthood and Midwifery.

I encountered a few aspects of the new sections I don't fully understand:

- Can a sim who is too weak to enter a higher Boarding-School get an equal home-tutored education that allows him to enter University if he get's a better THS?

- It is stated that a health-tour enhances the healer's/doctor's successrate to heal a sim. Is he still bound on the "one healing-session per season"-rule?

- As I see it, becoming an Innkeeper or Mercantile requires all the Badges (Gold Restocking, Silver Register, Silver Sales) listed? Or just one of them?

- So, the Basic-Training in the Knighthood-section is pretty much a Military-Prep-School? There is also the skill-requirement, that confuses me... "Page: Skills: 2 Body, 1 Logic" "Squire: Skills: 2 Body, 2 Logic" I guess it is always a "+ 2 Body"? Because the Minimum Completion Requirements for the Basic Training is "Skills: 5 Body, 3 Logic"
--> Confuses me because in the Borading-School-Section the required skills are always given as total.

Less a question, more an idea I had: Since a midwife is suppoused to stay with the pregnant woman 4 hours before and 4 hours after the birth, I limited my midwife to two births per day (which also makes several midwifes in one neighborhood more reasonable)

bye bye,
Yvi

PS: I kinda found a solution for my "Crownprincess-Problem": She could simply marry her first cousin on her father's side to keep the royal blood "clean" (and preserve the royal last-name)... I'm just not so sure if the paranoid king will allow an offspring of his brother on the throne
Instructor
Original Poster
#766 Old 18th Sep 2014 at 4:49 PM
Hi again everyone. :-)
Lady Scarlet, Wow. I am ... numb. What a story. I read down in the comments that the children are now teens and able to take some care of themselves. But still. What happened to the little one? Did she die, too? So many questions! This is one I am definitely waiting to hear more of!

Yvi-Sama, thanks for all of your close-reading and questions. I'll answer your questions in order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
- Can a sim who is too weak to enter a higher Boarding-School get an equal home-tutored education that allows him to enter University if he get's a better THS?


Yes. BUT the student would need to complete a comparable program through home study as the ones outlined for boarding school in order to earn the requisite number of educational points to be admitted to university. For Private University, a student would need at minimum 16 educational points (12 for graduating private boarding school and 4 for private day school or equivalent--see Table "Academic Preparation" on p. 61). To really be faithful to the rules, that would mean that the tutor hired by the family would need to have the requisite education points to teach the program--for a private boarding school professor, he would need a minimum of 50 education points to teach the program (see Faculty Guidelines, p. 59). The requirements are higher for elite boarding schools and universities, so you'd need to calculate the requirements there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
- It is stated that a health-tour enhances the healer's/doctor's successrate to heal a sim. Is he still bound on the "one healing-session per season"-rule?


A doctor may perform up to seven treatments per season or every five days (see p. 28), which is slightly higher than one per day. Doctors on health tours may not perform more treatments, but their treatments may be more effective: see "Special Conditions" in Table 22, "Health Tour General Benefits" p. 34)--those Dr./Healer modifiers increase the high number on the doctor's or healer's effectiveness modifier (i.e. in Table 20, "Treatment Effects")--so a Superior Doctor would roll from -5 to +25, instead of -5 to +20 on a first treatment administered to a patient in poor health if given while on a health tour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
- As I see it, becoming an Innkeeper or Mercantile requires all the Badges (Gold Restocking, Silver Register, Silver Sales) listed? Or just one of them?


To finish the apprenticeship, all of the badges must be earned, so have your apprentice merchant work in another owner's shop until he earns all of the badges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
- So, the Basic-Training in the Knighthood-section is pretty much a Military-Prep-School? There is also the skill-requirement, that confuses me... "Page: Skills: 2 Body, 1 Logic" "Squire: Skills: 2 Body, 2 Logic" I guess it is always a "+ 2 Body"? Because the Minimum Completion Requirements for the Basic Training is "Skills: 5 Body, 3 Logic"
--> Confuses me because in the Borading-School-Section the required skills are always given as total.


No--the problem is just a typo in the Squire requirements, which should say 3 body instead of 2. The full basic training is Page + Squire, so 2 body (page) plus 3 body (squire) is 5 body, for the full requirement. Just fixed it in the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
Less a question, more an idea I had: Since a midwife is suppoused to stay with the pregnant woman 4 hours before and 4 hours after the birth, I limited my midwife to two births per day (which also makes several midwifes in one neighborhood more reasonable)


Makes sense to me For my own use, I tend to think of one sim day as a year, so I try to keep enough midwives on hand to have them do no more than ten or so births a year--that's still not even one per month! I did a stint years ago as a midwife's apprentice and attended several births a week when we were super busy! Geez, those were the days. Kinda miss 'em now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvi-sama
PS: I kinda found a solution for my "Crownprincess-Problem": She could simply marry her first cousin on her father's side to keep the royal blood "clean" (and preserve the royal last-name)... I'm just not so sure if the paranoid king will allow an offspring of his brother on the throne


Yep. Prolly not! Let us know how it turns out!

And now for a quick update on the progress of 3.0: Chapter 5 is almost finished--all that is left now is the court cases section. I could maybe get that done in a week or two. But I am not going to lie, folks, this thing is a monumental task to finish. The new semester has started here and I am already drowning in teaching and grading ... yeah, I didn't want to get a new semester underway without finishing 3.0, but there it is--real life happening .... Again. So, here's what I'm going to do: here in a few weeks I'm going to release what I have of 3.0--it will be a very nearly, almost, but not quite finished 3.0. It's going to be missing some front matter (like a detailed table of contents, list of tables, list of illustrations, etc, etc), and some back matter (index, glossary). Chapter 4 is half-written--the exact rules for forming alliances are still under construction and are going to require some play-testing. The only other contents missing will be the Appendixes containing some specific rules for warfare--also require more play-testing, and the specific rules for running trading companies, again, play-testing needed there. The rest is written, and the editing is more or less finished, I think.

I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and interest--it really is what keeps me going. But I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your patience and understanding. You guys are awesome simmers and I know how seriously you take your games. I just want to be sure that what I put out is a well-thought game worthy of your attention and not some slapped together haphazard monster that no one can use. I can see the horizon on 3.0... it's just still kinda far away.
Test Subject
#767 Old 19th Sep 2014 at 10:31 PM Last edited by Yvi-sama : 21st Sep 2014 at 12:29 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
I can see the horizon on 3.0... it's just still kinda far away.


That's kinda a bad habit of horizons

Keep up the good work and when RL really hits you: We have proven to be patient

PS: I really can't wait for the new content!! --> Well so much for being patient
Lab Assistant
#768 Old 20th Sep 2014 at 2:55 PM Last edited by Chammalia : 20th Sep 2014 at 5:38 PM. Reason: Adding picture
I'm jumping in here; have been following this thread for a few weeks and read the 3.0 teaser through. I'm very excited to start this challenge, however, with some modifications - I want to play a steampunk/renaissance/victorian kind-off hood and I wish, religion-wise, to play more of a pagan style 'church' instead; it is still going to have a hierarchly structure, so the clerical favour points will still count though.
I do have a question about how the church titles compares to the other titles? What I mean is how a bishop fx. will compare to fx. a baron or how an archbishop will compare, etc. - if that makes any sense? /: I couldn't seem to find this anywhere. I do however believe that a pope would fit into 20., an archbishop somewhere in 15-ish and so forth? (I have added a picture of my danish/english title revision, and would like to add in the religious hierarchy as well )

I'm going to make mine heavily storybased, which might require some adjustments to and bending of the rules at times. I might also, as noted, do some modifications to the original rules, if that's okay with you M3g7e?

It sounds great that the full version of 3.0 will soon be up! I'm still in the worldbuilding process, but still, I'm excited!
Screenshots
Space Pony
#769 Old 20th Sep 2014 at 5:50 PM
Chammalia, welcome here! It's great to see new people around ^^ I'm glad to hear that you want to try a steampunk/renaissance gamestyle, because it sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see some pictures.

M3g7e, I'm happy you liked the lasu update. I know it might have been a little depressing (not exactly what i usually write), but I wanted to try something new and I had this scenario in my mind for quite some time. About those 'little ones' ... Actually, the woman ( the one that died) had twin girls (and they're alive, their THSs are 43 and 97) , but I wrote and posted this chapter before they were born (and I wasn't exactly expecting twins, even if it wasn't the first time for her), so now I don't really know what to do. The two older girls will probably leave and find work in some nobleman's domain, but the three younger ones (a boy and the twin girls) might go and live with a good-natured relative.

O wrote some more (well, I actually wrote a lot more, around three or four more chapters), and here's an update This chapter is about Agnes Lancaster, one of the Duke's daughters (the most ambitious one). She followed her father in the war, where she got to decide her destiny. She also met Alleken's brother, Albrecht.
And the excerpt, of course.

♕ Endless Ambition ♔
“But you’ve slipped under my skin, invaded my blood and seized my heart.”



Two years and a half after her arrival and exactly one year before her father's triumph, she carried on the first one of her many acts of defiance.
It was during a formal dinner in her father's pavilion, when she was introduced to a young and very promising Captain in the Duke's army, already very much admired by her father. And also very betrothed to her older sister, Maria. She recalled hearing his name casually mentioned among her family, but it wasn't until that evening that she decided to put to the test her personal charm. It certainly wasn't the first time she was flirting with someone, because what other guilt-free pastime could a noble young lady enjoy if not an innocent tease of charming courtiers? But she certainly never dared to foresee the outcome of her actions.
Read more...
Lab Assistant
#770 Old 22nd Sep 2014 at 3:02 PM Last edited by Chammalia : 22nd Sep 2014 at 3:34 PM.
Aw, thank you Scarlet! I'm in the process of setting up my game on a new computer and downloading CC, so it will probably be a while. However I am writing on the first chapters.
Your blog looks amazing and holds some intriguing stories. I would love to see a character chart for your sims (like alignment, aspiration, age and such), maybe also a table of contents to better find your posts, especially for those just finding your blog (like me) - It is only suggestions of course, I don't mean anything ill by it C:


Also, I've created this generator to give every sim a selection of traits as well as a favourite colour. I really did it for myself, however, I thought it might be of use for others as well, so here goes: http://www.generatorland.com/usergenerator.aspx?id=7660
Space Pony
#771 Old 22nd Sep 2014 at 5:57 PM
Thank you, Chammalia I don't have a characters chart for my game, because there are too many sims around and I don't usually pay too much attention to aspirations and alihnment ^^" And it would be kind of complicated to keep it updated, especially with the age category >.> But I do have some records for my people's THS (it helps me determine who is alive and who is not and also it's a great way to see to their health status).
Aaaand ... a table of contents is actually a great idea (I used to have one on my old blog, but with this one ... I've been a little distracted). I'll see what I can do about that ^^ Thank you very much for the great idea.
I can't wait to read some chapters and maybe see some pictures ^^

Also, that generator is great! Thank you for sharing it with us. I have so many characters in my neighbourhood that it kind of became a little tiring to create a new personality for each of them, so this is great
Lab Assistant
#772 Old 22nd Sep 2014 at 6:05 PM
Ah, I see, it certainly is. I'm just a sucker for character charts ^^,
I understand, real life happens x3

Your welcome (:
Instructor
Original Poster
#773 Old 23rd Sep 2014 at 4:30 PM
Wow, Lady Scarlet, I can see that things are really heating up with Albrecht I think I'm going to like Agnes about as much as Alleken, though I really miss her! I would love to see a character chart showing all the tangled relationships between the Duke, his family, and oh, just everyone (dreaming here ... ).

Chammalia, a Hearty Warwickshire Welcome to You! It's always nice to meet new faces, and you come bearing gifts! Wow--thank you so much for the generator--it looks really cool. I, too, am a huge sucker for character charts and anything that goes to character creation, story telling, etc. It's my main reason for writing Warwickshire in the beginning, and it hasn't left me yet.

As to your earlier question: church titles do not directly correspond to political titles; however, it does make sense that they would. I don't see any issue with the way you've outlined it for yourself. For purposes of the game, there is an arbitrary and totally non-historically accurate separation of church and state in 3.0: this allows players to play without a huge church in game, if they wish, but all the pieces are there for you to integrate the two, as they historically were. So, yes, it does make sense, and if I had to assign class levels to the church hierarchy, I'd probably do it as follows:

Pope: 20 (though this title does not exist in Warwickshire, you can add it to your game ....)
Archbishop: 17+
Cardinal: 14/15
Bishop: 10-14, depending upon size and relative power
Vicar: 8-9
Chaplain: 6-7
Parish Priest: 6
Parson: 4-5
Friar: 3-5
Sacristan: 3
Sexton: 2

However (and this is the reason clerical positions are not given class stations in the game)--it should be understood that these class levels are not the actual class level of the sim who performs the job. For example, I think it is certainly possible for a merchant's son to become a Sexton, just as it is for a well-educated gentleman to become a Bishop. So, these class stations would more describe the honors and privileges afforded by the position rather than the exact class station of the sim who held the position. In other words, it gets complicated fast. For this reason, it has to be decided by players to reflect their own unique neighborhood story--so take the list above as just a guide, not a "rule."

I hope that answer made sense--kinda tired today.
Lab Assistant
#774 Old 27th Sep 2014 at 1:22 PM
M3g7e: Sounds great! I really wanted to make my own thing, so your answer is much to my liking
I went ahead and made my own chart and I think it fits pretty well in with yours; attached for anyone interested ^^,

So much shiny CC out there. Can't decide what to put in my game..
Screenshots
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