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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 5:21 PM
Default Community lots
When reading about people complaining about TS3, one of the statements that came up quite often is that "The open hood is OK, but it's boring because there is no-where to go but Rabbit Holes". Well, I always thought this was quite a false statement.

Here is the lots that I managed to list, that are either lot types provided by EA, or simple lots you can build yourself.

- Parks (playground/community gardens)
- Gym
- Library
- Pool
- Café/diner (using WA food register + coffee machines)
- clubs/bars/lounge/vampire lounge
- Internet café/game arcades
- Book-store (using WA book register)
- Consignment store
- Laundry-mat
- Nectary
- Martial arts academy
- Tombs
- Junk yard
- Fishing lot
- Beach
- Fire station
- Neighbours <3

RH lots:
Opening up RH lots can be done in two ways.
1. Without CC. Either build the functional lot on it's own lot, or on the same lot as the RH building.
2. With CC. Use RH rugs/doors to save space and have the actual RH functionality inside your own building, instead of next to it.

My own town:

Fire station - lot type "Fire station": Pretty self explanatory.

School - lot type library:
School RH door. Downstairs there are two rooms, one class room so kids can stay after school to do homework. And a library room, where I have one computer, and skilling book-cases (it's a school after all, that's why there are no fun-book book-cases).
Upstairs I have two rooms, one is the science room, where I have the invention bench and the chemistry table. One room is the arts room, where I have two easels.
The lot type is library so when the kids skill or do homework, they do it faster.
I do have plans on expanding the school to also fit a music room, observatory, and have a big enough arts room to fit the sculpting bench but I've not had the time to do this yet.

This lot has no mods, only the school RH door and lockable doors, so I can prevent adults from entering the science and art room. I only want kids to skill in this lot.

Book-store/café - Lot type library:
WA book register. Café downstairs, upstairs the book-store part.
Lot type library because:
- The owner writes her romance novels there, and it seems to happen faster than on a normal lots.
- I get an appropriate tag onto the map
- When I click on bookworms to go to the library they go to this lot. I don't know why they choose this lot and not the school lot but I'm glad they do.

Spa: Lot type salon:
RH Spa door. Spa objects like the bubble table, feet message chair and hot tub. I have bigger spas abroad, with more objects like a pool and stylist station. On this lot I do use my clothe shopping mod, so the owner gets profit from the sales but this can easily also work without the mod with the stylist station.

Diner/Grocery shop - Lot type "Consignment Store":
WA food register and WA consignment register. It's one lot with two different buildings, the grocery store and the diner. Next round I will expand this lot to also sell nectar.

Salon - Lot type "Salon":
Stylist station and tattoo chair. Mostly to be used if somebody wants to join the stylist career.

Hospital - Lot type "No visitors allowed":
Hospital RH door + waiting area. This lot was basically to get the hospital to fit onto a smaller lot. Maybe one day I could expand it to include a research lab with the chemistry table and some other objects, but for now, it's basically just a deco building.

Police station/jail - Lot type "No visitors allowed":
Police station RH door, with a jail part in the back. CC used lockable doors so I can lock in the inmates.

City hall - lot type "No visitors allowed":
Downstairs I have city hall/business/diner and military base RH doors. I also have a tiny room for civil ceremony weddings. Upstairs there is also a meeting room for the town council.

Movie theatre - lot type "Visitors allowed":
Movie theatre RH door. On this lot I do use my "Open Cinema" mod but this can easily work just as well without the mod. When you think of a movie theatre in TS2 it's just a community lot with a TV - and so is this lot. Most of my people can't afford fancy TV's so it's nice to treat them to some fast fun when on dates and such. The movie theatre is downstairs, upstairs there is space to add a concert room but haven't done that yet.

Church - Lot type "Big park":
Downstairs I have the church part with the wedding arch. Upstairs dining with the Buffet table, an extra table for the wedding cake and a piano. Lot type is "Big park" so I can throw weddings and funerals on the lot.

Fishing/camping spot - lot type "Fishing":
This is up on the mountains, a bit grungy but it's suppose to be for people who want to get away from other people. It has a toilet, a pond, fire pit and enough free space to fit a tent or two.

Central Park - Lot type "Big park":
It's a park with park stuff, nothing much to it.

My town is still missing a lot of lots, like a tavern, a gym, a pool and so on.

I do use my "Shop from Inventory" mod to be able to sell my Sims own products/books/inventions/baked goods... Because I like playing the hood as an integrated economy but that's only for my own fun. All these lots work just fine even without mods. Mods and RH doors just make life more interesting and help you save space.

On the top of my custom hood I also play one girl in Twinbrooks. In there the hood is basically how EA made it. It's more of a casual game in there, so I don't mind shopping or dining in rabbit holes.

So, how is it in your own hood. What types of lots have you made? Do you use the RH lots, or do you open them up/mix and match?
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Scholar
#2 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 5:29 PM
Call me crazy, but I LIKE rabbitholes. Honestly, the only RH I wouldn't mind seeing opened up is the restaurant, but even then I'm not too fussed as they can eat outside.

I see the RH's as a "Sim creche" while they are in there, I can focus on others. Shopping at Non-RH stores bugs the crap out of me. STOP TALKING AND GET ON WITH IT!

Until today, I was playing a legacy in Twinbrook, and honestly the amount of time spent in RH's was negligible anyway. I think alot of the "I like the open hood but there is nothing to do beside RH's" we hear comes from players who haven't necessarily played the game, and are concentrating on what they have heard other people complain about. People are after all, natural whingers. Note that I said alot, not all, before anyone jumps on that.

The only non-standard lot I had in Twinbrook, was a Church, which I classed as a "small park" so they could get married there.

Severedsolo's Simcredible Mods ALL my mods, including ones that have not made it to MTS yet. LATEST ADDITION - SNEAKING OUT FIX FOR GENERATIONS

Please do not PM me asking for help. Use the Help section.
Lab Assistant
#3 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 5:38 PM
If you use rabbit hole doors/rugs can you change their color? And what type do you assign to lots where you do use rabbit hole doors/rugs?
Forum Resident
#4 Old 2nd Aug 2011 at 11:25 PM
I have lots set aside in my game for public businesses, but I usually assign those lots as "visitors allowed". I have one store that utilizes ani_'s Inventory mod as the store serves as a Juice bar and a local resident sells the fruit that she grows to the juice bar.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#5 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 5:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiekOMGEEZE
If you use rabbit hole doors/rugs can you change their color?
Yes.

Quote:
And what type do you assign to lots where you do use rabbit hole doors/rugs?And what type do you assign to lots where you do use rabbit hole doors/rugs?
I mention the lot types in the post. But basically "No visitors allowed" for work buildings, and what ever is suitable for others.
Instructor
#6 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 6:24 AM
I don't know how to simulate "Shopping Experience" into a game. In the real world shopping is a fun activity.
Scholar
#7 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 6:57 AM Last edited by suzetter : 3rd Aug 2011 at 8:36 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebriton
I don't know how to simulate "Shopping Experience" into a game. In the real world shopping is a fun activity.




Yes, fun is the missing factor here.

I have gotten rid of most EA RHs in my game. The mauseleum, sports arena, and military base being exceptions. My community lots are playable and any RH functions are limited to a small space on the property.

People have known they can build their own community lots since day 1 of TS3. The first lot I posted at MTS back in March 2010 was a community lot with a Cinema, Nectar Bar, Cafe, Bookstore, Gym, Antique Shop, General Store, Playground, and Game Lounge.

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/...5850_Cinema.jpg

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/..._Plaza_Park.jpg

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/..._Plaza_Park.jpg

The reason why many players dislike rabbit holes so much is because we feel they are a copt-out on EA's part.

Sims had careers before they had rabbil holes so the game doean't need an RH in order for Sims to have careers.

People build community lots, make objects, create Sims, tweak game codes. We should hurry up and create animations so as to save EA the burden of having to do even that as well.

Plus, i find it odd that you advocate everyone building their lots to pick up EA's slack since you said " Building and decorating is just so ugh". on another thread:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...696#post3598696

It's Life...there are no rules.
You can see more of my creations at www.customsims3.com
Lab Assistant
#8 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 8:30 AM
If you want to replace the RH lots but don't want to use cc you can put the RH building in the basement
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#9 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzetter
Sims had careers before they had rabbil holes so the game doean't need an RH in order for Sims to have careers.

Sims always had their jobs in RH, this is just the first time you have control on what careers your town has and where this career/school is located by being able to place or remove the buildings as you wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzetter
Plus, i find it odd that you advocate everyone building their lots to pick up EA's slack since you said " Building and decorating is just so ugh". on another thread:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...696#post3598696

Building is not my favourite thing, never was and probably never will be, but I had to build or download lots even in TS1 and TS2 because the EA provided lots were always very badly done.

That's why getting a building done in my game is a months long process. The first round I just make it functional, and then little by little I add CC or EA made objects to make it better.

Not enjoying building has nothing to do with enjoying seeing my Sims sit for a cup of coffee in the café or watching them eat pie in the diner or watch a movie in the theatre.
Scholar
#10 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzetter
:
The reason why many players dislike rabbit holes so much is because we feel they are a copt-out on EA's part.

Sims had careers before they had rabbil holes so the game doean't need an RH in order for Sims to have careers.


I hear this argument alot, but I honestly don't understand it. In TS1 and TS2 the Career's were still rabbitholes. The only difference is that with TS3 they actually have a physical presence in the world, rather than disappearing into nothingness, which in an open world would just be silly.

I understand the point that if you're going to have an open world then EVERYTHING should be open, but from a practical point of view, that was never going to happen, not within the budgetry and time constraints that EA had available to them.

I agree with ani, I personally hate building, mainly because I suck at it, but there are plenty of talented builders out there. I never build anything, I search sites like this, and find people who are far more creative than me, and use their work, and then if I want to make a RH lot open, I simply add a rug.

Severedsolo's Simcredible Mods ALL my mods, including ones that have not made it to MTS yet. LATEST ADDITION - SNEAKING OUT FIX FOR GENERATIONS

Please do not PM me asking for help. Use the Help section.
Mad Poster
#11 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by severedsolo
I hear this argument alot, but I honestly don't understand it. In TS1 and TS2 the Career's were still rabbitholes. The only difference is that with TS3 they actually have a physical presence in the world, rather than disappearing into nothingness, which in an open world would just be silly.


They are too big, take up too much neighbourhood space and they are not customisable at all. A 2x2 or 3x3, function assignable box should have been more than enough.

View my other downloads on MTS

www.mintrubbing.org
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 12:25 PM
Having a lot of places to go is not exactly the same as having a lot of gameplay functionalities once there. Take the beach for instance. We can't sunbathe on the sand. We can't swim in the ocean. Other than fish in the ocean, there's nothing to make a functional beach lot. (Sure we can put a bar there and a few lounge chairs, but that's not exactly a beach function, my sims could do that in their backyard.) Of course, although it upsets me, lack of functionality is not going to stop me from building, decorating and downloading new locations for my neighborhood.


Lots in my town:
Some were built by me, most were downloaded and then I re-decorated.


Lot Type: Residential
Note: although these are residential lots, the owners/employees don't live in the lot (except Janice's Bakery). I like the idea of having businesses in the bottom floor of apartment buildings and that's what I was going for here. I use twallan's register mod to assign the sims to their workplace, and Late Night's public building marker allows sims that don't live in the residential building to enter it. The rabbitholes usually make a few costumers come to the lot, though not as much as in community lots.

Carmen's Mexican Restaurant
(bistro rabbithole rug + WA food registers)

Janice's Bakery
(bistro rabbithole rug + WA food registers)

Joana's Beauty Parlor
(spa rabbithole rug + WA food registers)

Kylie's Daycare Center
(needs updating for Generations)

Moira's Tattoo Studio
(tattoo chair + WA general register)


Lot Type: Dive Bar

Oakley's Restaurant and Pizzeria
(bistro rabbithole rug + WA food registers)

Concert Hall Venue
(Late Night Bar + Late Night instruments)



Lot Type: Visitors Allowed

Blue Rose Nightclub
(Late Night Bars)

Media Tower - F1 Circuit
(Business and Journalism rabbithole rug)

F1 Team Garages
(Stadium rabbithole rug + WA general store registers)
Need to see if this still works.

Airport
(indoors still unfinished)

Sonya's Diner and Gas Station + Paul's automobile repair shop
(WA food register + WA general store register)

Heather's Boutique
(WA general store register)

Radio Station: PRFM (SimCorp Building)
(WA general store register)

Alex Taylor's Detective Office (SimCorp Building)
(WA general store register)

Ryan's Photography Studio (SimCorp Building)
(WA general store register + ani's Shop from Inventory mod)

Wedding Reception Hall
(Generations Wedding Arch)


Lot Type: Pool

Upscale Private Beach Club
(WA food register)

Beach Club #2



Lot Type: Salon

Anna's Salon + Psychiatrist Office (upstairs)
(Stylist Station + Hospital rabbithole rug)



Lot Type: Art Gallery

Adam's Art Gallery
(WA relics register) * Needs updating



Lot Type: Gym

William's Fitness Center
(WA food register + WA general store registers)


Okay, there's more, but I've ran out of patience...

To reach the unreachable star.

Wilde Legacy

Alchemist
#13 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 1:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by severedsolo
I hear this argument alot, but I honestly don't understand it. In TS1 and TS2 the Career's were still rabbitholes. The only difference is that with TS3 they actually have a physical presence in the world, rather than disappearing into nothingness, which in an open world would just be silly.


I just wanted to add to this, that back in TS2, people would sometimes complain that there were no buildings in the neighborhood to correspond to the careers. No police station, no school, no hospital, etc. Some people even went to the trouble of buildings dummies of these buildings for their towns, even less functional than the current rabbitholes because there was nothing inside them. Some creators even zoned them as residential so they wouldn't show up in the list of lots you could visit when choosing a community lot for your Sims to go to.

So, you can look at rabbitholes as a cop out, but given that there was something of a demand for rabbitholes even before EA provided them, you can also see it as EA taking ideas from the community.
Forum Resident
#14 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 1:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll
Lot Type: Residential I like the idea of having businesses in the bottom floor of apartment buildings and that's what I was going for here. I use twallan's register mod to assign the sims to their workplace, and Late Night's public building marker allows sims that don't live in the residential building to enter it. The rabbitholes usually make a few costumers come to the lot, though not as much as in community lots.


So it is possible? I was just testing this set up in my game by using a custom made apartment with a WA food register and a public marker on the ground floor through the use of Buzzler's build/buy restriction choker. I really didn't get a lot of customers, but I did notice that when my sim(the one who was living in the apartment) would go out and talk to people, some would visit the "diner" below the apartment and buy food. It was almost like he was "notifying" people about the shop.

Enough of my boring dribble. That's is one impressive list of community lots. I remember seeing a few of them in that Business and Community Lots picture thread.
Scholar
#15 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 4:19 PM Last edited by suzetter : 3rd Aug 2011 at 4:44 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_
Sims always had their jobs in RH, this is just the first time you have control on what careers your town has and where this career/school is located by being able to place or remove the buildings as you wish...


You could always control what careers are in your town by which ones you chose to utilize. Before you didn't need buildings to pick and choose careers for your sim but now you do. RHs are an example of how constrained game play is in TS3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by severedsolo
I hear this argument alot, but I honestly don't understand it. In TS1 and TS2 the Career's were still rabbitholes. The only difference is that with TS3 they actually have a physical presence in the world, rather than disappearing into nothingness, which in an open world would just be silly.


Shell buildings do not equate an open neighborhood. Sims disappear into nothingness now when they enter the building -- how is that better than disappearing into a car or cab that takes up no real estate? I dom't understand what is so enticing about taking your sims to a lot to be left at the curb. I would much rather have a playable bakery or dress shop or dance school lot (anything that can be fully utilized really) rather then an empty building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by severedsolo
I understand the point that if you're going to have an open world then EVERYTHING should be open, but from a practical point of view, that was never going to happen, not within the budgetry and time constraints that EA had available to them..


Severed solo, no offense intended but I think your confusing the issue. I never said everything should be open. I'm fine with sims disappearing for work.

The issue here is not if we should be able to see our sims at work but that Rabbit Holes are unnecessary hinderances and EA should have given us playable lots rather than unplayable shells.

The whole is equal to the sum of its parts. So having a game comprised largely of empty shells equals mainly empty game play.

They were working on it for at least four years before it was released and I've seen no mention by EA of budgetary constraints in developing TS3 anywhere. Where did that come from? Besides, while execution may sometimes be hindered by a budget -- creativity is not. What someone does with what they have to work with is usually a matter of creativity and ingenuity.

I cannot support EA giving us empty shell buildings for community lots. It sets a bad precedent. They just released an EP without a new town (Generations). And for the most part the reviews for Town Life have been that its a stuff pack that lacks "stuff".

Quote:
Originally Posted by severedsolo
I agree with ani, I personally hate building, mainly because I suck at it, but there are plenty of talented builders out there. I never build anything, I search sites like this, and find people who are far more creative than me, and use their work, and then if I want to make a RH lot open, I simply add a rug.


Ani is the one telling people they should build their own lots -- not me.

I agree with you that a game should come complete.

But why do you think you would need to build anything if the lots EA gave you were playable rather than RH shells? You wouldn't. It's not that you'd get less community lots but that you'd get playable, active community lots rather than empty building shells.

And btw, while you may not be into building you do make good mods and I respect that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
They are too big, take up too much neighbourhood space and they are not customisable at all. A 2x2 or 3x3, function assignable box should have been more than enough.


Well said! Exactly, if they didn't suck up so much real estate and were in addition to rather than instead of playable lots then RHs would not be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ll
Having a lot of places to go is not exactly the same as having a lot of gameplay functionalities once there. Take the beach for instance. We can't sunbathe on the sand. We can't swim in the ocean. Other than fish in the ocean, there's nothing to make a functional beach lot. (Sure we can put a bar there and a few lounge chairs, but that's not exactly a beach function, my sims could do that in their backyard.) Of course, although it upsets me, lack of functionality is not going to stop me from building, decorating and downloading new locations for my neighborhood...


Yes, limited game functionality is really the issue.

The lack of functionality is what drives me to build because why would I want to send my sims to a lot to disappear or stand around doing little if anything?


.

It's Life...there are no rules.
You can see more of my creations at www.customsims3.com
Lab Assistant
#16 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 4:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzetter
Plus, i find it odd that you advocate everyone building their lots to pick up EA's slack since you said " Building and decorating is just so ugh". on another thread:

http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...696#post3598696


lawl throw them dueces up that be my thread.

What is the once mod that makes the registers usable? Can someone explain that to me I get so confused whenever i read it.
Scholar
#17 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 4:41 PM
LOL -- nothing wrong with your thread. Interesting question -- that's what made me read it.

The registers are from WA (EP1) -- you don't need a mod to use them.

But if you want to create an RH ( have the career menu options) then you need to use an RH mod.

Jynx made a series of doors and rugs for all the rabbit holes up to Late Night that work great and which you can find here: http://customsims3.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=53

And Winterhart did a residential version of Jynx's base game rug set bwhich you can find here: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=411270

It's Life...there are no rules.
You can see more of my creations at www.customsims3.com
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#18 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 7:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzetter
But why do you think you would need to build anything if the lots EA gave you were playable rather than RH shells? You wouldn't. It's not that you'd get less community lots but that you'd get playable, active community lots rather than empty building shells.


EA gave a lot of none RH lots, and still people go and re-build them. No matter what lot EA gives us, people will go around and make it their own, RH or open lot. I don't understand why are you making building - which is such a none issue, into an issue.

Quote:
The lack of functionality is what drives me to build because why would I want to send my sims to a lot to disappear or stand around doing little if anything?
If Sims would disappear into thin air like they did in TS2 you would still be standing around doing nothing until they came back.

Having functional lots is the reason most people build community lots. Combining that with a RH object, makes everything more integrated. Like the school, when my kids get out of school, I can straight take control of them and have them do stuff in the school building, either doing homework or studying chemistry, or working on their invention skill, or having them play computer games. In TS2 you can build a school building into the hood, but if you used the game's default schooling system, you would have first had to wait for the kids to return from school in the home lot, then take them back to your own community lot school. So yes, you would have a school building, but as calisims said, it would just be a deco building. It wouldn't be connected to the actual school anyway.

I know that your answer to this post will be something like "RH bad - TS2 style out of lot RH is good" and I can accept that. But wouldn't it be much nicer and more on topic to list the lots you have in your game? You linked to a few, but I'm guessing you have more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
They are too big, take up too much neighbourhood space and they are not customisable at all. A 2x2 or 3x3, function assignable box should have been more than enough.
They are definitely too big.

Rabbit holes should have been a tiny object from the start, like the rugs or doors we have now. Then you could have build around them from the start like we can build around them right now.

Quote:
Having a lot of places to go is not exactly the same as having a lot of gameplay functionalities once there. Take the beach for instance. We can't sunbathe on the sand. We can't swim in the ocean. Other than fish in the ocean, there's nothing to make a functional beach lot. (Sure we can put a bar there and a few lounge chairs, but that's not exactly a beach function, my sims could do that in their backyard.)
Couldn't agree with you more. The beach was actually one of the lots I originally thought of not listing because it's nothing special, but it's a lot type so it got onto the list.
Scholar
#19 Old 3rd Aug 2011 at 8:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_
If Sims would disappear into thin air like they did in TS2 you would still be standing around doing nothing until they came back.


While my sims are at work -- I just play a different sim.

It's Life...there are no rules.
You can see more of my creations at www.customsims3.com
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