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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 15th Jan 2012 at 8:13 PM
Default Tim Tebow: A good role model or not?
I've been meaning to make a topic out of this for a while, so here goes.

In my honest opinion, no. He's NOT a good role model at all. I know that everyone here at MTS seems to be extremley tolerant of homosexual individuals and against using the bible to condone hatred. Well,we all know that Tebow is, in all respective purposes, a total evangelical Jesus-freak and Jesus-freaks....can be a bit misguided... I remember back when a few of my friends attended the Gay Pride Parade in NYC after Same-gender Marriage was made legal, they told me that Jesus-freaks were going insane on the other side of the street. They were holding up signs with portraits of govoner Chris Cuomo saying "The Antichrist is Here", "All homosexuals are peverted demons",and "1 Corinthians 6:9, Leviticus 20:13" while shouting "PUT SATAN BEHIND YOU!!! PUT JESUS IN FRONT OF YOU!!!"

Tebow is really big in involvement in his Evangelical church, and I read an article where it confirmed that he refused to participate in It Gets Better and before he joined Denver, he did an anti-abortion ad (I don't like abortion either, and its not even the point) but it was for Focus on the Family, who like the Westboro Baptist Cult...i mean Church. Protest against all gay rights.

I really honestly hope Tim Tebow is smart enough to know that's not what God is all about. God is about love and caring, not hatred and bigotry....If he does say something hurtful about gay people or verbally attack a gay couple in public telling them that they're going to Hell, Words would not coherently describe how disgusted and sickened I would be.

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Mad Poster
#2 Old 15th Jan 2012 at 8:58 PM
He's the guy that prays before games and when he scores? It's weird - it's like he believes God is on his side, but no one else's. Apparently, no one else who plays on any other team has any pull with God or is holy enough to beat him. :P

From my perspective, anyone who does that is so egocentric that they make a poor role model and a poor model of a Christian as well. And you are 100% right - if he's preaching hate he makes a poor role model, and again, a poor Christian.

Best thing I've seen yet: TeBowie: Together as one!

Also, for anyone who feels they need to quote the old testament as the end-all on the biblical discussion of homosexuality, there's this, this, and this.

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Top Secret Researcher
#3 Old 15th Jan 2012 at 9:08 PM
He's a football player. He's categorically only a good role model for something if you're looking for someone to look up for playing sports. People who look to people who play sports as role models for things outside of sports, because of their fame and/or skill in sports? That's pretty misguided in my opinion. On the other hand, people are frequently misguided with even less reasonable people and things they look up to. In that respect I suppose knowing that it's unlikely that Tebow has committed any murders or crimes against humanity is at least a point in his favor. It's no worse in that respect for having unreasonable emulations of actors and actresses as role models, a profession best known for its ease in adopting false projections of personality.
Instructor
Original Poster
#4 Old 15th Jan 2012 at 9:27 PM
But the thing is, many people are saying that "oh, Tim Tebow is bringing something that's been missing from this generation of teens for a long time, FAITH." Umm, excuse the hell out of me, but that type of faith has also said some of the most vile things possible about not just gays, but people that are not a part of their church. Some of the hate speech from churches is some of the most disgusting shit I have ever heard.

People that think its a good thing that kids want to be evangelists, but here are the hard hitting questions they need to hear. Do YOU want you kids to hear that it's all right to violently and forcefully rebuke a person for being gay? Do YOU want your kids to think it's OK to say that all Jews are going to hell just because they believe a little differently from Christians? Do YOU want your kids to think that all these minority groups should die just for existing?

Me and Ritchie have a story blog now!

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Mad Poster
#5 Old 15th Jan 2012 at 9:29 PM
Mistermook, I think you are making a good point that we need to keep perspective: What'sHisFace is an athlete and not an icon. On the other hand, he's a celebrity and they live in the public eye, so I look to him as a human being and am sorely disappointed.

Doesn't he, himself, try to put himself out there as some kind of a model when he publicly gets down on one knee to pray for touch downs and to thank God for his victories?

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Top Secret Researcher
#6 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraroc
Some of the hate speech from churches is some of the most disgusting shit I have ever heard.

Tim Tebow is not a churches. Until he starts opening his mouth from atop a steeple I'll try not to confuse the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraroc
People that think its a good thing that kids want to be evangelists

Which people? Not many that I've heard, and I live in the Bible Belt surrounded by Southern Baptists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraroc
Do YOU want you kids to hear that it's all right to violently and forcefully rebuke a person for being gay? Do YOU want your kids to think it's OK to say that all Jews are going to hell just because they believe a little differently from Christians? Do YOU want your kids to think that all these minority groups should die just for existing?

No I don't, but on the other hand as much as I don't personally like Tim Tebow I don't know that I can recall him personally saying any of those things. Conservatives aren't all Ann Coulter, and not every guy playing football saying he's an evangelical spent his weekend dragging homosexuals down dirt roads behind his football truck.

What he does do and say is annoying enough that I don't really think it's well adjusted or constructive to project what he might say or do into the future, simply because of his associations. After all, he's getting paid to be a quarterback and for the most part he's acting like a running back. If we were going simply by his associations and not what he actually does, we should be expecting Dan Marino. Or we could peg him as a celebrity, declare that celebrities are all boozing drug addicts based on stereotypes, and wonder why the guy isn't smoking enough crack...yet.

Like I said in another thread, I don't even think he's being a "bad Christian." I think he's being a fairly normal Christian, because most Christians (and indeed, most people altogether) have a disconnect between "say" and "do," and most people have issues somewhere where they feel strongly enough about something that they're an annoying douchebag about it.

If it gets to be enough of a distraction his coach and teammates will take care of it, and he'll have a choice between playing football and preaching on the field. On the other hand, as long as people talk about him for doing that, and buying tickets to games based on the hype surrounding him, I don't see how it's any more of a problem or issue for the sport in general than Dennis Rodman used to be. Because that's exactly what it reminds me of, the same urge to stand apart from your teammates. That's not automatically a bad thing, but once it becomes that bad thing professional sports are remarkably cut throat about such things I think.

And after defending him like that, let me just say it brings me great joy to see him crying on the sidelines each and every time it happens. Even I find myself tuning into his games, just to see if he'll have a masculinity break-down on national television each time. I'm not ashamed to say I find that terribly entertaining.
Theorist
#7 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 12:36 AM
Quote:
Doesn't he, himself, try to put himself out there as some kind of a model when he publicly gets down on one knee to pray for touch downs and to thank God for his victories?

It's wrong for him to pray in public? I don't think he's trying to be a model, he's just executing his faith and what he thinks is right. If he thinks that you should pray for touchdowns and thank God for victories then he should do that. I wouldn't do it because my faith is different but I still wouldn't change my beliefs because I'm in the public eye. Be true to who you are.

Hi I'm Paul!
Mad Poster
#8 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraroc
But the thing is, many people are saying that "oh, Tim Tebow is bringing something that's been missing from this generation of teens for a long time, FAITH." Umm, excuse the hell out of me, but that type of faith has also said some of the most vile things possible about not just gays, but people that are not a part of their church. Some of the hate speech from churches is some of the most disgusting shit I have ever heard.

People that think its a good thing that kids want to be evangelists, but here are the hard hitting questions they need to hear. Do YOU want you kids to hear that it's all right to violently and forcefully rebuke a person for being gay? Do YOU want your kids to think it's OK to say that all Jews are going to hell just because they believe a little differently from Christians? Do YOU want your kids to think that all these minority groups should die just for existing?



FAITH is just another name for politics and power. Religion has always been used by people to control other people, that's why in times when religion was a big thing, the church had alsmost as much power if not more than the kings. Even now, if you look at monarchies, it's the church that carries out the ceremony to make them kings. So, it's only normal that they do not approve of people who have their own opinions and question their views on certain issues, and so those so called evangelists will try and bully and manipulate the masses into submission so they can be used as tools to further their plans and gain even more power.

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Mad Poster
#9 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodl95
It's wrong for him to pray in public? I don't think he's trying to be a model, he's just executing his faith and what he thinks is right. If he thinks that you should pray for touchdowns and thank God for victories then he should do that. I wouldn't do it because my faith is different but I still wouldn't change my beliefs because I'm in the public eye. Be true to who you are.
You're making a good point. There really is nothing wrong with praying in public, although praying for a touchdown is asinine. Players on the opposing team could easily do the same thing; who should God listen to?

Do you believe he is sincere? His dramatic gesture coupled with the drop to one knee suggests a desire to draw attention in a showy way to his actions. Maybe praying isn't wrong, but theatrical praying...at a football game...for a touchdown....um, yeah.

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Theorist
#10 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 12:59 AM Last edited by Robodl95 : 16th Jan 2012 at 1:11 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocobaura
FAITH is just another name for politics and power. Religion has always been used by people to control other people, that's why in times when religion was a big thing, the church had alsmost as much power if not more than the kings. Even now, if you look at monarchies, it's the church that carries out the ceremony to make them kings. So, it's only normal that they do not approve of people who have their own opinions and question their views on certain issues, and so those so called evangelists will try and bully and manipulate the masses into submission so they can be used as tools to further their plans and gain even more power.

When someone talks about their faith they're generally referring to their personal connection with religion/God.
Quote:
Religion has always been used by people to control other people, that's why in times when religion was a big thing, the church had alsmost as much power if not more than the kings. Even now, if you look at monarchies, it's the church that carries out the ceremony to make them kings.

People like to control other people - that happens without religion.
Quote:
So, it's only normal that they do not approve of people who have their own opinions and question their views on certain issues, and so those so called evangelists will try and bully and manipulate the masses into submission so they can be used as tools to further their plans and gain even more power.

This is again human nature. I hear plenty of disaproval from non-religious people about religious topics. Plenty of religious people are open-minded even if their religion isn't, there are also plenty of non-religious people who are certainly not open minded.

Quote:
You're making a good point. There really is nothing wrong with praying in public, although praying for a touchdown is asinine. Players on the opposing team could easily do the same thing; who should God listen to?
Do you believe he is sincere? His dramatic gesture coupled with the drop to one knee suggests a desire to draw attention in a showy way to his actions. Maybe praying isn't wrong, but theatrical praying...at a football game...for a touchdown....um, yeah.

It's hard to say, how you pray really varies between individuals and denominations. I don't know enough to say whether that way is normal for evangelists/him.
Quote:
who should God listen to?

Good question and I don't think anyone can answer that.

Hi I'm Paul!
Née whiterider
staff: administrator
#11 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:05 AM
It's sort of a self-defeating question, really. Presumably, most of the people who think that teens having an overtly "Christian" role model is an important thing, are Christians themselves. And given that according to Christian beliefs, all humans are sinners and incapable of achieving perfection, the only role model who stands up to Biblical standards is Jesus. Those who don't give a shit about the Biblical standard, theoretically, are not Christian, and probably therefore aren't that impressed with this Tebow guy.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:15 AM
The idea that that all people are sinners describes certain Christian groups and believers, not all. I, for one, would be impressed with someone who lived their faith through service to others and who strove to be loving as Jesus taught in the New Testament. Someone like that would make an excellent role model.

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Mad Poster
#13 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodl95
When someone talks about their faith they're generally referring to their personal connection with religion/God.


It's funny how it's Ok to have a personal connection with god and religion yet if you have another personal connectin with some other imaginary entity you're deemed a lunatic.

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Theorist
#14 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterider
It's sort of a self-defeating question, really. Presumably, most of the people who think that teens having an overtly "Christian" role model is an important thing, are Christians themselves. And given that according to Christian beliefs, all humans are sinners and incapable of achieving perfection, the only role model who stands up to Biblical standards is Jesus. Those who don't give a shit about the Biblical standard, theoretically, are not Christian, and probably therefore aren't that impressed with this Tebow guy.

Jesus is a holy figure, no one's suggesting worshipping Tebow. If you're a Christian parent wanting a good role model for your kids you probably like one with similar beliefs to yours. This is true of everyone, you want you kids to look up to your perception of good people, not alcoholics, criminals, etc.

Hi I'm Paul!
Mad Poster
#15 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:21 AM
Seriously getting off topic - Unless you think TeBow is trying to dominate or control the fans by praying? Maybe he is....

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Top Secret Researcher
#16 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 1:38 AM
Now I want to see a sect of Tebow worshipers, and attend their services to see them perform rituals in the name of the Touchdown Messiah. Bonus points for the fact it would likely irritate the shit out of Tebow.
Instructor
#17 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 2:13 AM Last edited by SimsLover50 : 16th Jan 2012 at 5:01 AM.
I honestly didn't know who Tebow was/is.

I do not personally consider sports figures/athletes to be role models. I think some of the fannish worship of athletes is a little out of control, as well as their salaries.

The person who runs the local soup kitchen while holding another job, gives to charity, helps the poor, does good deeds, and is kind to others is more of a role model, than someone who is a role model simply because of their skill at a sport... which is what an athletic career really is, and a highly paid job too.

Religion is neither an indicator of goodness or badness or indicator that someone is a role model for me. Spontaneous religous fervor seems more genuine to me. Ritualized or overly staged religious fervor can seem like they are doing it for other reasons than their faith- such as to preach, set an example, or superstition. (If I don't do my ritual before the game, I won't win), etc.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 2:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimsLover50
Ritualized or overly staged religious fervor can seem like they are doing it for other reasons than their faith- such as to preach, set an example, or superstition. (If I don't do my ritual before the game, I won't win), etc.
First, I have to say that I agreed with everything you said, including the part about not knowing who TeBow is (I only learned about him a couple of days ago when someone shared that video - see my link in an earlier post) and I do like the way you expressed it. But I had not considered this last part before. Maybe that's it! He has OCD!

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Top Secret Researcher
#19 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 3:46 AM
I am not here to be a bitch. But to say that "Tebow is a Jesus-Freak" then to degrade those kind of people. That makes you no less better, then someone that is against homosexuals or racist people. I am sorry, but its true. I may be a lesbian, but I will NOT judge someone.

Or anything like that, Tebow is a good guy, he really is. Hell, the poor guys get SO MUCH shit for him being religious. This thread kind of makes me wonder, if the girl who was shot in Columbine High School, for defending her religion to the shooter. And when he asked why she believed in God, he shot her.

So, did she deserve to get shot for being what you call a "Jesus-Freak" or "Martyr"? Seriously, take in the thoughts that there are OTHER people that protest against gay rights. Hmm! For example there are people that aren't even religious that think homosexuality is disgusting. And yet, you pin point it all on religious people. Lets face the facts here. In my eyes, this thread is putting down religious people, and saying they are the ONLY people that despise homosexuality. Hmm, I have had people throw their damn cans of pop at me, calling me a fucking fag (Literally their words, don't mind the language) and guess what? They do not believe in God.

Oh, by the Tebow is going to a Fun Raiser in a place that no one would ever go too, (Montana, I only heard this from a friend. I, however, do not live there, so I'll not be able to meet Tebow) and its for Religious reasons. Hmm, bad guy, huh? Yeah, right. And dear goodness, NOT Evangelical or Christians or Catholics or any other religions are like what you are portraying them as. If that's the case, then I hate myself for being a lesbian, and I am going to Hell. That's a great thought to have. I'm sorry but to get crap for being who you are, is racist. To be who are, and get dissed on, is discriminating.

Bottom line, if I ever have kids. I will let them choose whether that they go to church or not. But I am not going to fill their minds that all Religious people are spitting against Homosexuals. Because I do have religious friends that actually hang out with me, and help me, and even MEET my girlfriends.And one of my friends...Well, she is Catholic, and she wanted to be with a girl. But I guess her religious friends and family, puke to the thought of her being bi. No, they are actually supportive.

If you think EVERYONE person that is Religious is like that, they you are sorely mistaken, hun.

Yes, God is very forgiving, and loving. But hate to break it too you, people aren't. I will repeat myself one more time, and in caps even:

NOT ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE HATE GAY PEOPLE!

But seeing I'm a Christian...I hate myself. I find myself disgusting. And I can't stand looking at myself in the mirror because I'm a dyke, a fag, a lesbian, a homosexual, and a disease to this world. (And sadly, I do hate myself, but not because I'm a lesbian. I find myself ugly, because of all of the bullying and the torment I had going through over the years. And my teacher was a religious woman, went to church every Sunday. And she was the one that hugged me, when I cried. She was the one that stopped our studies, just to talk too me through the class period. She was the one that let me cry on her shoulder, when someone called me a "fag" and most of the time they were Atheists. For you information Atheists do not believe in God, or Satan. They do not believe in Heaven or Hell. But hey...I had a teacher that believed in God, that helped me throughout the school years.) But after reading this, I guess all religious people hate me. And that I should hate myself. And just to let you know, there are Homosexuals that believe in God, and that Jesus is their savior.


P.S. Everyone prays before the game. Every player and coach gets on their knee, and prays. I watched a scene where they were in the Giants locker room, they all got on one knee, and prayed. Hmm.



Sorry for saying anything. . .But now. . .I have another reason to hate myself

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Instructor
Original Poster
#20 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 4:01 AM
You know damn well that I'm talking about those churches that discriminate against gay people, not all do. I went to a catholic school and they made it oh-so-clear that gays do NOT go to Hell and that God loves all living things, no matter what. Unfortunatly, there will always be evil, disgusting people in the world and I DO hope Tebow is smart enough to stay the hell away from them, and if he's not, then fuck him, he deserves no respect from me or anyone with a brain.

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Top Secret Researcher
#21 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 4:08 AM
Yeah...Once again, sorry for saying anything...It was stupid to open my trap, wasn't it?

"Queen of the Damned seeks knight in shining piercings for pleasure, pain and purring"--Scary Mary from the Urbz: Sims In The City

"A Famous Explorer once said: 'The extraordinary is in what we do, not who we are.'"--Lara Croft from Tomb Raider 2013
Instructor
Original Poster
#22 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 4:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevermore Raven
Yeah...Once again, sorry for saying anything...It was stupid to open my trap, wasn't it?


Nonetheless, I can say that I am proud of the fact that you openly say your orientation! I mean, if I was gay, I would definitley have trouble coming out of the closet, and I'd probably end up marrying a woman or living a single life. But you, you make it loud and clear about who you are!!

PS: if some BITCH comes up you and calls you rotten names just because your a lesbian, don't take that shit, fight back!

Me and Ritchie have a story blog now!

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Top Secret Researcher
#23 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 4:18 AM
I couldn't hide it anymore. Not to mention I was caught making out with a girl. Yeahhhh. That was during my school years, I still get it. But not as bad. But yeah. It wasn't always all girls, that called me that. It was mainly guys. The girls were for some reason more supportive. I did make friends with a jock, that surprised me.

"Queen of the Damned seeks knight in shining piercings for pleasure, pain and purring"--Scary Mary from the Urbz: Sims In The City

"A Famous Explorer once said: 'The extraordinary is in what we do, not who we are.'"--Lara Croft from Tomb Raider 2013
Mad Poster
#24 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 7:10 AM Last edited by VerDeTerre : 16th Jan 2012 at 8:28 AM.
It's funny how the term "Jesus Freak" has changed since its inception. The "Jesus Freaks" of the 60s and 70s, the ones who rocked to "Jesus Christ/SuperStar" and "Godspell", were quite different. For one thing, they were hippies.

Oh, Look at this - Wikipedia knows what I'm talking about!

" Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -Dalai Lama
Scholar
#25 Old 16th Jan 2012 at 10:04 PM
I wonder what would be the reactions in USA if the same guy was Muslim and started to pray on the field each times he scores. Probably very negative.
That being said, a lot of athletes refer to god or alike when they achieve something but this one is too conspicuous to be honest, in my opinion...

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