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Top Secret Researcher
#51 Old 24th Sep 2012 at 12:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by StardustX
Exactly what Spitfire Mouse said. *nods*

There's a difference between gaming and real life. I can do ANYTHING in a video game, and then re-load my game and try again. Real life is entirely different, you don't get do-overs and your actions have consequences. That's why it's fun in video games but not in real life.


I have to agree as I would be probaly not like falling off things in real life or stuff like that.

"I know, and it breaks my heart to do it, but we must remain vigilant. If you cannot tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" - knight commander Meredith (dragon age 2)

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Theorist
#52 Old 3rd Oct 2012 at 1:30 PM
The topic is Violent Video Games Lead to a Violent Society. So the argument is that the theme of a specific media leads to a like-themed society. Bad argument. Not only that the conclusion draws much more than reasoned from the premise, but it's also not true in the real practical world. It must pass both of these tests to be valid. Can it be argued that more games like Cooking Mama for the Wii will lead to a culinary society? Or that more Bible-themed video games such as Left Behind, Heaven the Game, and Bible Man will lead to a Bible-observant and moral society?
Test Subject
#53 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 9:37 AM
Default Violent Video Games do lead into violent mind
Before violent games and media were released, a gruesome scene in a movie can make us cringe in fear and disgust, but ever since the media and games shows all this type of violent scenes that makes us used to it, as if we have lost our morality over such corruption of our mind. It is why the massacre in the Batman movie takes place.
Field Researcher
#54 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 3:15 PM
Aha, so video games are the only media that have made our (present) minds different of what they used to be. It's not like people were scared of movies that you now find hilarious or anything. It is not like nowadays people from developed countries have an extensive audiovisual culture that has made them able to discern reality from fantasy. Yeah, you have a point.

I study audiovisuals and a teacher of mine told us yesterday (well, much longer but I'll summarize) that one of the things that make movies appealing for most individuals is that you can go through the very same experiences than the character, live in their skin, and then the movie ends and nothing has changed; there are no consequences in your real life because what you just watched was not real. That's the same with videogames, except for the fact that you do not only live the character but you control them too.
Theorist
#55 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 9:05 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Auwei
Before violent games and media were released, a gruesome scene in a movie can make us cringe in fear and disgust, but ever since the media and games shows all this type of violent scenes that makes us used to it, as if we have lost our morality over such corruption of our mind. It is why the massacre in the Batman movie takes place.

Which video game was Hitler playing? Surely he must have been, since otherwise he would not be used to gruesome scenes and have lost his morality.

Bonus Question: What console did Genghis Khan play on? I'm saying this because I just don't see Genghis as a PC sort of guy.
Forum Resident
#56 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 9:14 PM
Personally, I think that sometimes the violence in video games can help people be less violent in their everyday lives. I don't know how many times I have been mad at the world and felt like going out and choking a small animal (just a figure of speech for those concerned) and then play a violent game and feel better to have gotten some of that anger out on something. Honestly I would rather completely mutilate a little video game character than bottle up all of those angry emotions inside until I snapped and ended up hurting a real person. Even if by hurting them I only hurt their feelings...

I agree that sometimes people take things too far and try to copy a video game or something in real life, but those people, IMO, already harbor violent tendencies and would have eventually released them, video games or not.

The moon so bright shows me the way
Deep in the graveyard beside her I lay
Knowing she'll keep me safe from all harms
Though six feet apart, I lay in her arms...
Inventor
#57 Old 8th Oct 2012 at 7:51 AM
Just wanted to leave a question here for people's consideration: Why is it that whenever people are talking about "violent" video games, they seem to be talking only about ones like the Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty series, but not ones which are centered around things like hunting (examples here and here)?

Obviously, yes, the violence is against animals rather than people, and therefore "not as bad" according to most (not the debate here), but it does still depict killing something in a graphic way (the games have very "realistic" looking graphics), and even can attempt to re-create the "feeling" of shooting something; hell, the second link was for a game on the Wii, a platform which seems to feel the need to make a specialized controller for each and every different genre of game they put out, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out that "Remington Super Slam Hunting" had a rifle-shaped controller.

However, one could "act out" a hunting game much more easily than they could something like CoD or GTA. Think about it, how many people (including yourself) do you know in everyday life who can pick car locks and hotwire them (when you're even able to anymore thanks to advances in technology; With the newer cars, they just end up shutting down period), much less have mafia connections like in GTA? And last time I checked, the majority of enlisted soldiers do not end up being considered skilled enough to become Special Ops agents, and going back to WWII and killing Nazis was definitely out without access to a time machine. Point it, these and similar "violent" games all have their toes dipped slightly into the realm of fantasy, whereas hunting happens (depending on the season) every day in real life to some degree or another.

Also kindly take into consideration the fact that the majority of documented (murderous/murdering) sociopaths, psychopaths and the like, usually include a statement that goes along the lines of them "started (ing) with animals and worked their way up to humans" and sometimes even one from the killer themselves saying "it was just like taking out a [insert animal here]." It sure sounds like if any kind of video game would feature something that could be considered "training" for a mass-murderer, a hunting game (followed quickly by going out into the woods and actually killing things) would be much closer to that than something whose entire premise is technically unrealistic.

Suddenly stabbing ancient Italians as a Renaissance-era assassin seems a lot more "innocent," doesn't it?

*For the record, I don't believe that there is any actual correlation between "violent" video games and real violence, and that just because you enjoy them (including hunting games) doesn't mean you're training to shoot up people in real life, I poised this for the sake of argument/question.
I don't personally agree with hunting strictly for sport, only in cases of feeding yourself/your family (if you honestly don't have enough money/other means to properly do so, and only take what is needed, nothing more, and let as little go to waste as possible), or for reasons of cultural tradition (which even then can be very debatable, and no some redneck with camo on saying "you ain't a real man 'less you can." does not count as "cultural tradition" )
Test Subject
#58 Old 15th Oct 2012 at 9:57 PM
Default re violent video games
I know a few troubled kids who turned to violent video games as an escape or have had influence but i think as long as the kids grew up with the right amount of support and nurturing they would understand that a game is just a game its the parents job to teach agenst copying anything theyre kid is exposed to.
Instructor
#59 Old 16th Oct 2012 at 6:13 PM Last edited by Kasey_LP : 16th Oct 2012 at 6:25 PM.
I forget- What were the video games ancient Romans played after a titillating day at the Colisseum? Oh, of course! A BETA version of Pong!

Damn that beta Pong... !
Test Subject
#60 Old 17th Oct 2012 at 7:25 PM
As an english exam of mine stated:
Violent games and movies are a result of our violent mentality, not a cause.
I can only agree.
Test Subject
#61 Old 5th Apr 2013 at 6:50 AM
If yes, then I guess we should shut out violent movies and shows too.

Honestly, I'm sure it affects some people more than others, and doesn't affect some people at all.

All in all, I would go with no.
Mad Poster
#62 Old 5th Apr 2013 at 8:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Mistermook
Bonus Question: What console did Genghis Khan play on? I'm saying this because I just don't see Genghis as a PC sort of guy.


The Pii-Station X1162 of course! And his favorite game was Call of Mongolia!

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

Lab Assistant
#63 Old 7th Apr 2013 at 8:10 PM Last edited by archamedes : 7th Apr 2013 at 10:57 PM.
I Think this answers it



here in the UK any game that is deemed too violent, has a sexual nature or generally inappropriate for children will carry an 18 Certificate. Anyone under that age will not be allowed to buy a game with this certificate & most game shops are very strict on this. Any parent who cannot clearly see the blatant big red mark with 18 on the front cover & still buys the game for their child is part of the problem and not part of the cure. Its these people that stop us from having nice things, because they allow their kids to be exposed to graphic violence that were not designed for them & whenever there is a mass shooting or a teenage murderous rampage, they are too quick to blame games, because a 15 year old teenager (whom is allowed to drive a car in the states) is not able to distinguish between reality and the game world. That in itself is just an insult to common sense, but still 15 is probably still too young for the likes of GTA and other pointless hack n' slash games.
Mad Poster
#64 Old 12th Apr 2013 at 12:46 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 13th Apr 2013 at 5:07 PM.
Violence is a part of the instincts that tells us to survive and protect ourselves, and it has been so as far back in history as humans (and earlier humans) have existed. As modern humans we have the ability to suppress this instinct and live a peaceful life together.

Violent games have existed ever since humans had to learn to defend themselves. They had to learn how to use weapons, fighting techniques and how to kill an animal (for food, clothes or protection) or another human (for survival or protection). Violent videogames is just a new type of violent games, or to train these instincts, if you will.

When people are violent, they let their instincts take overhand, and their inner animal gets control over them. They don't do it simply because the watched/played something violent. Their psyche was either unstable in the moment, or was already unstable.

To play violent games/videogames or to watch violent movies don't automatically make you violent. Perhaps people love such games and movies for the entertainment value of it (because violence has always been entertaining to watch, such as fist-fights in the local bar before TVs took over) - again a basic instinct, as in "we've fullfilled our needs, now it's time to have fun". Someone else than you gets their butt kicked, and that's fun to watch. Or perhaps it has to do with being in control over the fight, the suspense of it, and so on.

I'm not saying that watching violence can't possibly make you violent. It can, under the right circumstances. But usually there's something more involved - pressure, instincts, anger, psychosis, self-preservation, protection of property, addiction, and similar. People can even change negatively if they're exposed to a bad environment or get negative impressions over and over again.

There once was an experiment performed where people (more or less) voluntarily gave deadly electric shocks to other people when asked to. They didn't know that they were the real subjects, and the test persons were just actors pretending they got shocks, but they stil did it under the influence of pressure (Milgram experiment). There are also examples of people who've been in war and are much more violent than before, having gone back to their "react or get killed" instincts.

So do I think that video games make people more violent? Not in themselves, not unless the person already is unstable. But I also don't think that children should play violent games, especially not games close to reality. Their minds are more vulnerable than the mind of an adult, and many are too young and inexperienced to understand consequences and connections in what they're seeing or doing. I think age limits are important, but also that parents realize that age limits are there for a reason. Play-fighting with stick swords in a back garden is a whole other thing than shooting humans, killing them with swords or blowing up buildings in a game. Consequences of play-fighting hurts if you accidentally hit, so they learn to be careful. But many games don't show consequences other than "game over" if you get it wrong. A lot of people don't get a sense of guilt in a game, because killing and blowing up things is one of the purposes of the game. Children might start doubting what is right and wrong, because their minds might not be developed enough to realize it's just a game and that's all.
Test Subject
#65 Old 18th Apr 2013 at 8:10 AM
Quote: Originally posted by pico22
I think it's the other way round - violent society leads to violent video games.


I couldn't agree more.
Alchemist
#66 Old 19th Apr 2013 at 2:35 PM
i completely agree with the people who have already said that a violent society leads to violent video games...after all, logically, the video games have to have a source for the violence they portray. games dont just poof into existance as violent, they are DESIGNED violent, and they are bought* by those whom enjoy violence. the idea that a violent product made by a violent society can somehow turn the society more violent is laughable and irresponsible.

and of course there is that, unless you are one of the extremely impressionable youths whom should not be playing violent video games in the first place, violent video games are not treated as real or condonable situations to emulate and are mostly saught after as outlets for negativity that, ideally, relieves the feelings of wanting to enact violence without actually producing violent results.

*the topic title kind of ignores that video games are, in fact, an optional commodity. nobody is forced to play violent video games. people CHOOSE violent video games. and somehow i doubt it is because they want to see things be hugged into bliss.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
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Test Subject
#67 Old 19th Apr 2013 at 9:42 PM
The real news is ALOT worse than games!! ( Films even more so..)

I cant say how many times i've been reading the paper, only to have to throw it down and play my games just to forget about it!!

Too be honest, I play games to get away from the horrible violence going on in the world! But its my feeling now that violence in the world is corrupting not only games, but films.
The advancement in graphics has meant films & games can seem alot more realistic... so WHY is there a need to make it even more hard hitting when the graphics are enough..?
I'm not one for butterflies & fairytales (im 25 & grew up in London playing GTA..) but i think the gaming & film industry are taking things too far these days...

Going abit of topic...but games like Aliens is a completely different story, where that game HAS to give a certain level of fright/violence otherwise it wouldnt be realistic, but theres a limit!

Parents are utterly responsable for ensuring their kids arent exposed to "bad games" Having said that, most adults watch the news with the kids in the same room....
Test Subject
#68 Old 1st Nov 2013 at 7:52 AM
I play skyrim, grand theft auto, etc. I like to play games that is impossible to beat without killing. Really when I hear someone dies I don't get happy. If I had to kill a mass serial killer I would still have a shudder in my spine because I took someone's life away. So no I do not think these games really make someone violent. You would have to be messed up in the brain to think that these video games are real or start a shooting rampage because they played Fallout 3.
Top Secret Researcher
#69 Old 1st Nov 2013 at 5:58 PM
Wanna know something funny? There's a certain group of evangelicals who say that seeing any sort of violence will corrupt a child's mind. So, of course, when Left Behind was made into a video game, they made you shoot people who won't convert. And the violence was justified by saying "this is how things will be in the Tribulation" (despite the books having no connection to reality) and that it's necessary to the story. Also, you can play it in Antichrist mode and kill a bunch of Christians.

And because it's a "Christian" game, nobody complains.
Field Researcher
#70 Old 6th Nov 2013 at 9:16 PM
Well in hunter gather times. Boys learned how to hunt. In Mesopotamia society (Babylon) there is the "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" laws. Greece: (No killing there except by gods for people disobeying rules), What console did Emperor Hadrian and others play on when they were conquering Greece, France,England?, What about King Richard the Lion heart and the Crusader Monarchs (both before and after him and the ones who were with him)? What about Queen Mary I's husband? The Protestants or the Catholics depending on whose on the Tudor Throne time line? Oliver Cromwell? What about the German Kaiser in WWI?
Top Secret Researcher
#71 Old 7th Nov 2013 at 3:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Celoptra
Well in hunter gather times. Boys learned how to hunt. In Mesopotamia society (Babylon) there is the "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" laws. Greece: (No killing there except by gods for people disobeying rules), What console did Emperor Hadrian and others play on when they were conquering Greece, France,England?, What about King Richard the Lion heart and the Crusader Monarchs (both before and after him and the ones who were with him)? What about Queen Mary I's husband? The Protestants or the Catholics depending on whose on the Tudor Throne time line? Oliver Cromwell? What about the German Kaiser in WWI?


They all played Civilization! On the Sega Genesis!

I do get your point, but you're describing things and people who were pretty decent for their times. The Code of Hammurabi was a huge improvement from most contemporary legal systems. Look at the OT of the bible: they suggest killing an entire city down to the babies if a single unbeliever is found there. People always forget the last part of the phrase in the Code: "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, and no more." Back then, people were saying "hey, this guy killed my relative, so I'll wipe out his entire family line!" When you look at that (or read the bible), it actually sounds very liberal for the time.

As for all the rest, they weren't engaging in violence for the sake of violence, like video games exist for. Most of them felt that they had to. The majority of those were religiously mandated. The popes directly ordered the Crusades and the Spanish Armada, and you don't mess with the guy who's claiming to represent someone who can bomb cities from orbit.

Greece, on the other hand? There's one poem where the narrative takes seventeen lines to describe cutting out a woman's tongue. The Greek heroes often killed casually and meted violent punishments. Even Athens and Megara, the two least militaristic city-states, could kick an invader's behind back up their mountains. The biggest reason they didn't attack each other is because they had terrible terrain to attack on and only had a short amount of time to do so. They were too afraid of losing; kind of like the Cold War, but with mountains and weather instead of nukes.

It's just that now, we're "civilized" enough that violence is no longer part of our daily lives. So when it does pop up, people run screaming. Well, that and certain groups of people can't stop holding onto their fantasies of nuclear mom-and-dad-and-20.5-kids families, so they're pretty upset that anything is shattering that.
Lab Assistant
#72 Old 22nd May 2014 at 6:51 AM
this is exactly why sims is pretty much the only game i play: because violent video games can make you aggresive!
thats why i DONT play violent video games

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retired moderator
#73 Old 22nd May 2014 at 10:26 AM
Actually, the evidence suggests that games with counterintuitive, frustrating controls are much more likely to make you aggressive than video games which feature violent content. So there's definitely an argument that sims 3, being one of the buggiest games on the market, has an excellent chance of turning its players into serial killers (or something) after about the fifth crash to desktop in a row.

If you are not a person who gets angry easily, and are someone who consciously chooses not to engage in violence in your everyday life, then consuming media which shows violence will not make you violent. Historically, though? Media which dehumanises a group of people has far more often been responsible for actual violence in real life. If you look at the genocide in Rwanda, the UN has transcripts of weeks and weeks of radio talk shows which were instrumental in bringing about mass-murder and rape. It's proven very difficult to prosecute those who broadcast these shows, because they never once even directly mentioned violence, let alone condoned it. Instead, they subtly and insidiously blamed Tutsis for all the wrongs in society, described Tutsis as rats amongst other animal epithets, talked about the virtues of Hutus - thereby implying that Tutsis are inferior - and so on. It wasn't even blatant, open racism of the kind that regularly makes outraged headlines in the US and the UK: it was mostly just a very nasty undercurrent. The radio transmissions weren't the primary catalyst for the genocide, but they have been blamed for the fact that so many ordinary, civilian Hutus turned on Tutsis they had considered friends and neighbours for their whole lives.

So if you're an evil mastermind and/or dictator, and you want to incite massive violence in a society? Don't hand out free copies of GTAV; pick a group, preferably a minority, and subtly but consistently put across the idea that these people are less than human. Everyone is more comfortable shooting a dog than a person.

And if you want to avoid being made more prone to violence and aggression by media, keep your ears pricked for anything which leaves you feeling callous towards a group of people, or viewing them with contempt. Would you be vilely offended if someone said those things about your loved one? If so, you probably shouldn't be thinking them about anyone.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
#74 Old 22nd May 2014 at 7:09 PM Last edited by Graveyard Snowflake : 23rd May 2014 at 7:21 PM.
I think it depends on the person. Some people are more prone to violent acts than others, whether it be from psychological problems or some neurological issue or the environment one grew up in or something like that. So it seems like violent video games would act as a good vent, if the person doesn't want to commit crime in real life.
Scholar
#75 Old 23rd May 2014 at 7:42 PM
Video games are a great way to escape the bullshit of reality for a bit, they don't make people more violent they serve as a way to take away stress.

"It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road - has reached its end" - Ulysses, Fallout New Vegas
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