I didn't mean to seem so stern I think it's the same way honestly. CC is a crutch but the game is basically great because we can have CC. Sure they should step up and let us create awesome things within the game but we survived TS2 without CASt. Right? Everyone still loves the heck out of that game. I'm just saying it shouldn't exactly be a deal breaker, especially since we don't know what we have instead of CASt.

I don't see any sims with outrageous hair colors. I'm a little peeved because that's what I love from the game, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape especially with such little information we have.

If the game is great because it needs external modifications to make it great, the game isn't great.

If one wants to add a few mods for personal flavor, that's a personal choice, but if the core of the game has been so boring to the point where it needs CC... how is that good, exactly? I believed 2 survived because it was a good all around game and didn't need tweak, outside of general preference.

3 survived becuase it did a few notable things that made it hard to go back to to. Notable, the openness and freedom of creativity in designing. 4 doesn't have that those major changes that make 3 seem archaic.

The only feature I like is adding a foundation late into a build. Then again, who would build, layout and furnish an entire house and later decide "I want to add a foundation?" That's the kind of stuff you catch early or know before/while building.

Actually this has happened to me a couple times. (Mostly on complex CFE builds, so I guess you're mostly correct) where I realise later on that I've shot myself in the foot by having or not having a foundation.

The game is great because we're allowed to customize it if we see fit, IMO. Some people don't use any CC.

Hey Matrix Believe me, I get that lots of Sims fans want shopping; I like the idea of it as well. I used clothing as an example as it was different between Sims 2 and Sims 3, and I think it's a good example of sandbox vs gameplay.

If using clothing as an example...

On one hand you have a 100% sandbox experience. You always have access to every piece of clothing in the game, and can put it on your Sim whenever you like. When you think about it, this is the closest to replicating a "virtual dollhouse" experience as so many people liked to label The Sims back when it first started.

On the other hand you have a completely linear experience. Let's say... your Sims all start out with a default outfit that you don't select, and you must either earn money to go shopping to acquire more clothes, or complete certain tasks to unlock additional clothes, or have to buy a closet so that you can own more than one set of clothes at a time, etc.

Now thinking along those lines, I'm fairly certain that what the majority of fans want lies somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. Many Sims fans are pretty adamant about wanting less directed game play and more of a sandbox to play and create within. But I don't think most people want a 100% open sandbox (although some certainly do - and for them I fully support the idea of having an option or a cheat to be able to acquire everything). I feel like I've seen Grand Theft Auto 5 thrown around a fair amount by Sims fans recently when talking about The Sims. By all means GTAV is a sandbox game, but it contains a lot of directed game play as well. As developers, we have to strike the right balance.

The reason I posed my question in the first place is I'm curious to see where people think the line is drawn in terms of game play vs open sandbox. It's a really complex issue, and I don't think you can apply it to the game with a broad brush... To me it's important to look at individual features and ask if the method of getting to any piece of content is fun, accessible, and retains the essence of The Sims. I'm not asking about it to inform any particular decision and it isn't a conversation just about clothing, I really just want to pick people's brains a bit and see how they justify the way they think things should work.

It probably happened to me once, but I handle building in parts. Architecture, gardening, interior.

I have to say how often will I use that feature. Sliding walls, I do that all the time. Adding a quick foundation - knowing that you'll need a foundation should be one of those obvious things before you start building. If you do forget to add, or want to remove one, I guess it helps. *shrug*

So, that new Cupcake machine is a rehash of the TS2 chocolate machine.
Okay EA, okay.

Also, I found this on Tumblr.
It just makes me laugh, oh so much.
While I don't agree with a lot said, I just will never get over this guy's face. Ever.




*goes back to counting down the days until the shit hits the fan, ala Gamescon*

Personally, I believe it comes down to this: What the game should be doing vs what everyone wants it to do.

Back in the olden days of the Sims 2, traveling from lot to lot for many was a complete and absolute nightmare for slower computers. If one wanted to go out and go grocery shopping off the lot, it came with massive headache of having to sit through 2 loading screens for a round trip. Rather than have all of the food available from the fridge (defeating the purpose of having a simulator in the first place). you provide players with realistic luxuries, like ordering groceries + food from a phone or computer. The second remedy is through alternative game-like means, like cheats.

Shopping is the same with. 3 even features a cheat to make certain outfits available in play that are otherwise locked (for career purposes, as they serve no real value, game wise.) If shopping were a thing, one of the most important thing would be clothes shopping, as this is something that humans do everyday. As a modern convenience, shopping via computer would be a great alternative for players who don't really want to travel from place to place and shop. The final alternative, for players who don't want to shop would be to have cheats readily available to eliminate any and all need to shop.

The issue isn't so much a need to balance as it is a need to have options, without sacrificing what the Sims actually is. The same argument can be applied to a Sim's needs. I build more often then not, so when I play the game, I want to try a feature out, learn how it works and get out (generally), and build lots around that. If I find mechanics fun, I play with a save file. For efficiency, I have needs maxed and locked, or a refill things I don't have time to.

By that game design ideology, you'd have to contemplate removing needs altogether to satisfy my whims as a player. I'm not the only person who plays like this, I'm sure. It'd be foolish to remove toilets, sinks, refrigerators, stoves, beds, etc. just because a handful of players don't engage in that play style. What did the team do, maybe even without proper intention? They provided alternatives. Objects that provide mood boosts, and cheats to lock moods into place. Even Island Paradise has a cheat to unlock islands per household. The cheat option exists for those who want to use it, but the core gameplay remains intact for others to use as they see fit.

This is something that people haven't complained about, because there are options available to the player and they get used quite often, be it for movie making, story telling or even taking a quick trek through the mechanics to get a few for what builds should be and play like.

Why remove what you can provide an alternative for? Why struggle to provide one possibly shaky and throwaway mechanic to please everyone when strong alternatives can exist.

@SimGuruGraham:

Why does it have to be one or the other? I'd like it if sims could be created in CAS with say, three default outfits for each category - being able to pick from the entire catalog.
Then once in game, for players who are all about getting a quick fix, or creators who just want to test something out, there should be an option to access the entire catalog straight away, free of charge. But for those players who like to approach the game in a more realistic sense, there should be an option to go out and have the shopping experience and be able to spend money on stuff. It's way too easy to earn money, they need something to spend all of it on, and not everyone wants a grand piano, hot tub, or sports car.

Shopping and business is a huge part of real life, and it adds a huge amount of sandbox gameplay.

Options. Provide options.

*Edit: Care to shed some light on the absent CAST speculations?

Yes. I would like to know if CASt just vanish completely or replaced by something else.

I dont think I even need a paragraph for this...SimGuruGraham listen to us, and listen to us clearly. We want options. That's it, stop dumbing this game down thinking you guys are catering to everyone. It's one thing to have the OPTION but a whole 'nother to sit here a cut the aspects of sims that makes it a simulation game.

MsNervousSubject, that is my favorite screen out of all the leaked ones and the one posted above got me Goodness!

To SimGuruGraham, again I want to thank you for reading our feedback and glad you welcome it. Reading your post above has me thinking more what sandbox to directed game play means to the developers, I now need to see what is being offered in game play and what is directed. Don't want to ask for something outrageous or improbable. I really don't want you to forget about family, being able to interact with them, all of them. From infancy to elders. Something I appreciated in Sims 2, infants interacted with children siblings by being held in parents arms and the kids could set a relationship with them from the start. Dollhouse play would allow us to dress the infants and probably play with a hanging toy over the crib. Just a few examples running in my mind now.

Thank you for debunking the myth that we shouldn't say anything if the game is unsatisfactory in our opinion. Accepting whatever is thrown at us will definitely cause problems with the fan base, we want to be involved. Paying out all types of money to play our beloved game and it's not fun, well we will eventually turn off to it. I read your post in the letter to you thread and really appreciated how you credited the fans for speaking up and making successful changes to Island Paradise.

@Matrix, that is a favored table and love the post you made about it, but with furniture having an effect on emotions, will it qualify as making a sim happy or really piss them off? What if the happy furniture is the boxy, modern bedroom set and it must be used to have happy Sims. *groans*

I would like to give a third vote towards knowing about the fate of CASt or if something similar/better is going to replace it.

For me, I like to think back to the original tagline for The Sims - "The People Simulator."

I like the gameplay to immerse me in that simulated world. When I see things like dressers that magically contain all of the clothing, or refrigerators that magically auto-buy ingredients for cooking, I feel like that part of the simulation is broken; it doesn't engage me, it doesn't help me to suspend my disbelief, it's not realistic, it's not challenging... etc.

However, I do feel that if players want instant access to all content or conveniences, they should just be able to use cheat codes for that. It's not my style, though. If I don't have to put any effort in, I quickly become bored.

Furniture effecting emotions - I can see the issues already. For particular Sims, I'd look to see that picture of a sunset make them few special every now and again, or certian sims being effected by strange and oddly shaped furniture.

But here in lies the problem - Balance. Frequency. Quantity. This is something I can see being subtle, but effective. As long as they don't dump it on players all at once, it should be fine. I'd like to see this handled gradually, with progressive EPs. Every desk doesn't need an emotional reaction from every Sim. Sometimes, a desk is a desk. I'd rather they be temporarily upset about the price thnn the object itself, like people are.

I don't think Graham can really tell us anything and I'm sure he wants to. He seems like good people.

All this talk of tables reminds me of Alice somehow...

This is actually another thing that makes me worry about CASt being scrapped as well, if a crappy piece of furniture is recoloured to a bright, cheery yellow, wouldn't that affect the emotional impact?

I see problems in the concept of this feature already, but since we don't know much about it, will reserve judgemet for now. An on/off option would be a good idea for this though.
I hate having furniture that gives bad moodlets, especially if it's in a style I like.
Eg. A shower might look like shit, but the house has amazing plumbing and a great water heater. Or a bed frame might be older looking, but it could very well be an antique frame, with a luxury mattress.

I thought, just maybe, since the information has already been released in a magazine, he might be able to.

I wish the whole mattress/bed thing was an option (which is probably is, in 3). That's a nice, general upgrade to the game core system. It's a travesty having to upgrade the bed in a Victorian house to something modern because the only bed with a 10 rating is in a style that could clash with the room completely.

Since the last few pages have been about CASt being taken away, if he was able to speak of the decision I assume he would have already. If not it might be because he doesn't just speak for himself, but as he mentioned before, the studio.

It's probably like walking a tight wire. Someone could run back and be like "But SimGuruGraham said..."

Ah well, it was worth a shot

I found that magazine for free here if anyone's interested: http://www.pdfmagazines.org/magazin...e-138-2013.html

Not true at all, The Term Sandbox simply means you have Options to do what you want, However you still need to work for that effort, and you still have consequences for said actions OF doing what you want. You still need to pay money for clothes in GTA and Saints Row for Example. Options to buy clothes is not a problem in that case because you'd have to do it for the sake of simulation of real life anyway. Also again It's an Option which is really all that Sandboxes are all about the option to do what you what, when you want, or to follow the path given.

Like others I want to say thank you for taking the time to talk to the players here. To the members of the Mod the Sims thank you for letting me post here.

Sir, a lack of a good tool box limits sandbox play. When you only offer one option that, for me, is linear. For me Sims 3 had no sandbox play. Sure my dresser had every outfit known to Sims but I was not able to take my Sim shopping, I was not able to build a small shop that was for kid shoes, or a Victoria's Secret, or a wedding and prom shop.

I was not able to take mom and dad Sim out for dinner without the kids so they could steal bits of food from each other and flirt like teen again. I was not able to take my family out eat and have silly dinner time at a restaurant.

I like sandbox play, I started playing D&D in 1979. I had complex games. Some of my girls started a chain of Inns, some had kids and only quested now and again. One opened a pet store dealing with complex life states. The DM thought it was awesome. The Sims 1 was made for me lol. As time went on more of the sand was taken away till we got 4E. I am feeling that push in the sims and I am not liking it.

I think that sandbox might mean something very different to you then to me.