The Ghetto Superstar Challenge - TS3 Version

[Avalikia]

I got all nostalgic for a challenge I used to play back in the Sims 2 era, called the Ghetto Superstar Challenge (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,9325.0.html) by Ellatrue over at MATY. As far as I know, nobody has updated it for the Sims 3 so I did it myself and I thought that I'd share it in the off chance anyone else wants to give it a try. It's all kinds of fun! Still officially in testing because this doesn't address much of the new stuff available in the Sims 3 yet - mostly I just translated it directly over so it needs some tweaking.

Instructions:
- Create one CAS Sim. (Must be female unless you use mods, see below.)
- Move this Sim into an empty lot that is 10x20 (or 20x10) or less.
- Using any method, reduce household funds to zero. (The original version of this challenge allowed you to start with $100, but since you get a free phone in TS3 and can wander off the lot freely, I think it's better to start with nothing.)
- The challenge ends when your starting Sim's youngest child becomes a teen.

Basic Point System:
+1 point for every thousand simoleans of the family net worth at the end of the challenge.
+4 points for each child born.
+1 point for every maxed skill
-4 points for each accidental death
-1 point for accidental promotions
-4 points for each child that doesn't reach the age of teen on the lot, whether through death or moving out.
-20 points for each child taken by the social worker

General Rules:
- ONE ENTRY LEVEL JOB. Only one Sim may be employed at any time, only level 1 jobs. Keep your work performance low and/or switch jobs frequently to avoid promotions. Full or part-time does not matter.
- NO MOVING IN SIMS.
- NO LIFETIME REWARDS.
- NO LIFESPAN ALTERATIONS. Aging should be set to normal, your Sims may not age up early, they may not eat life fruit, eat ambrosia, etc.
- ONLY ONE SKILLING ITEM PER SKILL. For example, for logic you may have either one chess set OR one telescope OR the chemistry set, etc. and never any two of those. For cooking, you can have a cooking book, the kid's oven, or the TV.
- NO BOARDING SCHOOL
- Sims may move out, but they may never move back.
- NO ADOPTION
- NO SELLING COLLECTABLES. While you may gather these things if you really want to, selling them is not allowed.
- NO TRAVELING
- SIMS MUST STAY HUMAN. Vampires and other altered life states are not permitted.
- Simbots are allowed if created, but do not count as children since they're created rather than born.
- There is no limit to the number of Sims you may have on the lot - for the best possible score you should have a mod that allows more than 8 Sims.

Rules For Other Lots:
- NO SKILLING. All skills must be learned at home.
- NO MAKING MONEY. Aside from the one allowed job, all money must be made at home.

Bonus Points:
+5 points for never using your phone
+5 points for never putting leftovers in the fridge
+15 points for never selling any stolen items
+10 points for never getting the one allowed job
+15 points for never selling anything you bought in buy mode
+20 points for never selling fish or produce (money bags from the tree count)
+5 points if the house only has one level
+10 additional points if the house has only one room
+15 points for starting the challenge with a teen made pregnant with mods. You do not get additional points for the unborn child, and the teen is not allowed to form further romantic relationships until they're a young adult.

Hacks and CC:
- Allowed as long as they're within the spirit of the challenge.
- Custom items must be priced similarly to official items of the same type and quality.
- Anything that makes the challenge HARDER is always fine.
- If using a mod that allows same gender pregnancy, only Sims that are the same gender as the starting Sim are allowed to reproduce, and may only "try for baby" with one gender (not both).

Unestablished Stuff:
- In the original challenge all Sims born into the family were required to have the money aspiration because they don't like growing up poor. Perhaps all Sims should be required to have the Snob trait? Or Ambitious?
- In the original challenge toddler toys counted as skill items in the rule about only having one item for each skill, but if I'm remembering correctly toddlers were not limited in the amount they could learn in the Sims 2 and that's why they made them count. Would making them not count make maxing skills too easy?
- The original challenge allowed cheesecake. Should the fertility treatment reward therefore be an exception to the no lifetime rewards rule? Should some of the others be allowed? It's the ones that help you make more money that we'd want to avoid.
- Whether or not Imaginary Friends are allowed to be made real. They would not count as children though, similar to SimBots.
- I know the original creator of the challenge balanced the point system based on the relative difficulty of everything in the Sims 2. Likely they'll need to be tweaked a bit as some things are probably a lot easier or harder in the Sims 3.
- Similarly, there were originally aspects of this challenge that had to be removed (like rules, penalties, and bonuses concerning getting into private school), and there are probably things that could be added in because the different games have different features.

[aelflaed]

This sounds fun, and even better because it only lasts one generation.
I find multi-generation challenges become boring after two or three generations, or the lot gets buggy, or whatever...short and sweet works best for me!

[Avalikia]

I like both: the long ones are awesome because getting to the end of it is a huge accomplishment, but shorter ones like this are good for when you need a break from the long ones.

[aelflaed]

case in point - I have been playing a challenge of my own, which was just up to its third generation of seven planned. But I've spent the last two or three weeks fighting glitches instead of playing, and the shine has gone off it rather now. So I'm thinking maybe I'll start a new one, such as yours...

[Zerhai]

a note on one of your unestablished things, being able to have multiples would make this challenge harder, so i think the fertility treatment should be allowed.

[Zerhai]

personally i like them about medium length or if you have a really good story behind em, working on one right now that is based on a challenge i created(mother of the family) i think i might try this one though, give myself something else to do.

[Avalikia]

It's definitely difficult to raise multiples, especially with a poor single Sim, but you can earn a lot of points that way. Not only do you get +4 points for each one, if you put the kids to work when they're older then they can make you a lot of money. But that reward is very likely to make it into the official ruleset as it's a pretty close match for cheesecake from the Sims 2.

[Zerhai]

if you manage to make a simbot, i think that should have some extra points for that, considering that to build it you have to have your gardening up and your inventing up, so i think, they should count in some way if you manage to get one, though i think as a lifetime reward i think there should be rule against them. And i don't know exactly how many skill points they start with but maybe get points for each extra skill point they have or something like that, since they act like normal sims that can't reproduce and talk to your appliances, (not to mention every sim in immediate vicinity reacts to them and from experience it can be quite challenging, even other simbots react to simbots. very annoying and it interrupts everything it seems.)

[Zerhai]

oh another thing you didn't mention thievery... so they can steal stuff from other sims and sell it?
and what about mooching?

[Zerhai]

i have another question, if your sim gets married can they move in?

[Avalikia]

if you manage to make a simbot, i think that should have some extra points for that
You do get extra points for that. Simbots are able to help make money and care for children, both of which will help you get points. Getting additional points on top of that would unbalance the challenge since it's easy enough to make more once you've made one.

oh another thing you didn't mention thievery... so they can steal stuff from other sims and sell it?
and what about mooching?+15 points for never selling any stolen items.
Which would imply that stealing is okay, but you get a substantial bonus if you don't.

i have another question, if your sim gets married can they move in?- NO MOVING IN SIMS.

[Zerhai]

well i am having fun with my sim, i had her living outside for a time, which i found utterly hilarious, so far she has a bathroom that actually has a roof, but that is it, she befriended one household cleared out two room in each one of them in about 6 days, or at least stole 6 items from each household, she has one kid, and is pregnant with the second, the first one she seduced a bouncer, and the second was some random chick, (i have woohooer, and it amuses me to make chicks get chicks pregnant) when she got a little bit of money, (from mooching and sold a couple of stolen items) i had her buy a scribble pad, (its a mod that only lets a sim write like a real notepad) and had her work on her writing skill, eventually she got a mirror so she is working on charisma as well.

By the by what i meant with the simbots is the ability to actually make one, the first one, should probably be extra points, like an extra 5 points or something.

been trying to steal an easel so she can work on her painting skill but haven't managed it. keep ending up with lamps and such.

[Avalikia]

Keep in mind that while you're allowed to use a mod that allows you to try for baby with Sims of the same gender, you must select one gender for their partners and stick to it for this challenge. In other words, they may be straight or gay, but not bi. Any other way makes this challenge easier because you have double the number of partners and that's considered cheating.

And I know what you meant by the Simbots and no, I don't think it's a good idea to give any points for creating them. You still get points for any money they help you earn, and they do make your life easier by helping with the kids. Allowing anything more would unbalance the challenge. So no, no extra points for them.

[Zerhai]

*snort* whatever, its not like I'm making it into a blog I'm just having fun. Nothing serious about it. No matter what you or I say on the discussion of points, that is what all of this boils down too.

[Avalikia]

Well, given your earlier questions I was under the assumption that you weren't understanding the rules. If you understand the rules but are choosing not to follow them, that's perfectly fine. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't because you're confused.

[Klevkin]

I love it Ava , you have done a great job on your challenges and you make them very clear and easy to play! I'm gonna try this one as well!! (that is, later on, when I have my RL running again ;))

@zerhai, I disagreed with your post because I think you are quite disrespectful towards Ava. It's okay not wanting to follow the rules, but to "snort" and react the way you do while all Ava is doing is trying to help you is something I disagree with.

@Ava, A few questions that pop up (yes of course I started the bloody thing ten minutes after I said I wouldn't start it yet...)
1. The points you get for skills maxed, are those for skills maxed by the children as well? Or perhaps I should ask, the points, are they only awarded for stuff your founder sim does? (the way I read it, it does)
2. And the never using your phone...does this mean not answering them either? Cause sometimes they do that autonomous.
3. What about opportunities? Those should appear by answering your phone, but if you don't answer they do show up. Are you allowed to accept them, and if so, does accepting them mean you have used your phone?

Then for the Unestablished Stuff:
- Ambition/Snob trait: I am starting mine with a sim that has the snob trait. I think it's more similar to the money aspiration then the ambition one has. The ambition is focussed on getting promotions, the snob trait is more focused on having wealth through owning expensive items.
-Toddler Toys: Are we limited to teach our toddlers whatever is possible?? If not, then I'd say make them count, it give you an advantage of three skillpoints using the toys. Making them counts, would that be like either a chesstable, or a pegbox? not both at the same time?
- Fertility Treatment: I'd say make it count, it is harder to raise twins or triplets at the same time, and the amount of children you're able to have remains the same (even with mods you can't make an unlimited amount of children...) and though they can help make money, which will happen faster the sooner you have kids, I do think the fuzz it takes to raze multiples will add out with the advantage of having them quicker.
- IF's, personally, I would never do that in this challenge, mostly because well, a life IF will only take up the space a child would and thus cost you points...with that said, I don't see any advantage into having an IF come to life, so I see no real reason not to allow it.

[Avalikia]

1. The points that the children earn would count.
2 and 3. Incoming phone calls would only count as phone usage if it's a Sim trying to call your Sim and you agree to talk to them. Accepting opportunities doesn't count as a violation. You can even direct them to answer their phone as long as you follow those guidelines. But mostly those bonus points are a matter of outgoing phone calls. I'll attempt to make that more clear next time I update the rules.

Ambition/Snob: In the Sims 2 version of this challenge, the hard part of everyone having the money aspiration is that everyone was constantly wanting a job, which they weren't allowed to have, and expensive shinies which they couldn't afford so it was hard keeping them happy. I haven't played the Sims 3 version enough myself yet to determine how closely having one or both of those give you the same problem, but that's basically the 'goal' of that rule.
Toddler Toys: You're not limited in teaching toddlers things in any way, assuming you have any needed items. The question is if not limiting skill items makes it too easy for them to max skills by the end of the challenge. Those extra three points certainly help, but it's not like the Sims 2 where a toddler could earn a ton of points in one skill before they age up - Sims 3 seems to keep it more sane by putting a cap on it. They can earn a lot of skills as a toddler, but only so much and it would be spread over many categories. But if they count then you would not be able to have a peg box and a chess set at the same time.
Fertility Treatment: Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say I'm going to allow this.
IF's: The advantage of IFs comes if you have a mod that allows more than 8 Sims in a household (which is not only acceptable but encouraged for this challenge - it increases the insanity factor a lot!), because then you could easily end up with a lot of IFs running around who could then earn you money - if you are actually capable of controlling that many Sims. So that's an advantage, kind of like a Simbot. The problem I have with IFs for this challenge is that they're a lot easier to get in the first place. Simbots require you to jump through many more hoops first.

[Zerhai]

I am usually a pretty friendly poster i don't make snobbish or rude comments unless i feel i have reason and feel free to delete my posts if you wish doesn't matter to me, I was posting fun comments about what I was doing, trying to be nice and I felt i was figuratively being smacked in the face because I was not doing it exactly by the challenge just so I can have fun with it.

Though this is simply my opinion and nothing else, nor am I trying to make it more than it is. I am leaving this thread alone now, and if I continue this challenge, I will not be posting fun little updates.

[Avalikia]

I'm sorry if I sounded mean at all, I certainly didn't intend to make it sound that way! I just saw in your update that you were doing things not in accordance with the rules, and since you had a lot of questions before I was just under the impression that the rules were unclear to you and that you were unaware. Now if you want to play this your own way and not follow the rules so strictly, that's perfectly up to you - I don't mind that at all! It's your game, and like all challenges this is supposed to be about having fun. I was just trying to be helpful.

Though I have to admit that I was kind of frustrated that you asked me more than once about adding points for Simbots, and I thought that I made it perfectly clear the first time that I decided not to do that and my reasons for it. Just as you're free to play your game however you're want, since I'm taking the trouble of posting this challenge I'm free to decide what the official rules are and I felt like you were trying to argue with me. And certainly your reaction to that felt very rude to me, though if you thought that I was trying to be mean I understand why you'd react that way. For what it's worth, though, I'm sorry for any misunderstandings I may have caused and I hope that you feel free to post any updates that you like. Though if you don't want to anymore, that's fine too.

[Klevkin]

Right so here's what i've been up to so far while trying to avoid the bugs in my random legacy :P

I started out with Lydwin Aster, she's actually someone I created for a whole different purpose but what the heck, i started her out as a teen and polinated her with NRaas MC. So she is now a teenage mom of a little boy. Lydwin started out going to school while pregnant. Sleeping in class was perfect for making up lost sleep.
I had a hard time though figuring out how to get her some money to start out with. I didn't want to sell the produce of her nicked vegetable garden for the extra points. Didn't want to find collectables and sell them either...So finally I figured out to have her go to the junkyard and have her collect junk to sell. That worked pretty well, she showers at the swimming pool right across her tiny 10x15 lot, and she eats the raw produce of her garden...she now is the proud owner of a babychair swing (whatever that thing is called) to keep the baby quiet, a potty, a sleeping bag for herself and finally an easel!!
Oh, she also is the proud owner of a Mr. Magic Gnome :).

[aelflaed]

When you say that a teenage mother doesn't get additional points for her unborn child, does that mean the child is not eligible for the normal +4 per child? So the challenge family would gain +15 for starting that way, but miss specific points for the first child.

Opportunities are unrestricted?

Does scrap not count as selling collectibles? Maybe it would be better if you've had to detonate something to get it in the first place.

Any thoughts on having pets?

Is mausoleum diving okay as a source of income?

[Avalikia]

That means that you don't get the +4 bonus. The child is eligible for all other bonuses.

Opportunities are unrestricted at this point, though I may alter that if I see a strong need to - it's one of those things that wasn't in the Sim 2.

I'd consider scrap to be a collectable - though if you brought it home and made something with it and sold that it would be allowed.

Pets were allowed in the original challenge, and I see no reason to not allow them in this version.

As you're not allowed to make money anywhere but home aside from the one allowed terrible job, mausoleum diving would not be okay.

[aelflaed]

So with opportunities, sims may receive money, skills etc - are they okay to acquire that way, or do we have to avoid them? Not sure how many opportunities would be left, since we already can't have any travel-related opportunities.

For skilling, if I understand correctly, any number of toddler skill items/books are allowed, but only one per skill for child and up? So they could have all three toddler painting books, plus one easel for the older sims.

My founder was offered a free vacation - seemed like a stupid idea to take it, but should it be specifically allowed or disallowed?

[Avalikia]

lol - you're asking a lot of question about undecided things, but I'll give it my best shot:

Right now, all opportunities (where you don't have to travel) are allowed. But I'd love to hear your opinion on whether you think that it makes this too easy or if it's fine that way.

For toddler items, I'd like anyone playtesting this to not count them when it comes to the number of skill objects rule, but again I'd like to hear your opinion on whether or not it makes maxing skills too easy.

When it comes to free vacations, I see no reason why that shouldn't be allowed because, like you said, it's probably a stupid idea to take it.

[aelflaed]

So I'm a playtester now... :)

My sim got the fertility treatment early on, and has a stolen TV to watch the kids' channel, so she had a single (as a teen), then triplets and now twins. Even with the eldest son a teen by the time the triplets were born, it was hard work for the two of them to get the triplets their basic training in four days. Only two managed it, though the third was not far off. In down-time the triplets used the logic and music toys (one of each), and most of them got three skill points in those two skills.

For the current twins, I purchased one series of skill books, and they are reading those in between basic training and logic/music. I don't think they will finish those available skill activities, and there are more that they don';t have access to at all. Thus far, I think it is fine to allow as many toddler skill items as wanted. If there is only one child at a time, it might be different - but the kid has to eat and sleep as well, regardless of how many sims are available to teach them.

No one has maxed a skill yet, although the founder has nearly maxed two skills. Skill books - can they only have one book at a time, or can they have the set of three books for one skill? I'm assuming only one book or object per skill, which means they can't get the 'never re-sell bought items' bonus if they need to swap for the next level book.

Regarding traits, Snob is not available to babies, so can only be taken at the child stage at the earliest - and only if you get to choose. Perhaps it should be clarified that Snob should be taken as soon as - or IF - it is possible.

I was wondering about letting the allowed careers include childcare - haven't tried it, but I believe it is done at home, and would only add to the madness. The self-employed careers such as gardener and painter might be okay too, as you have to sell things outside the lot to advance in them.

Opportunities have certainly helped my family - I have let them deliver paintings, and collect bugs, rocks and metals for delivery. I have refused opportunities involving travel, and they are not collecting anything unless for an opportunity. Opportunities are the biggest cash rewards they have had - no one has a career, they are not selling fish, produce, stolen goods, or re-selling buy mode items. I sold a gnome that was fished up too - possibly not supposed to as it was part of fishing, but too late now.

I gave my sim the Lap of Luxury lifetime want - and I'm thinking that I might continue the challenge until she either dies or achieves it. Or perhaps the challenge should continue until any member of the family achieves that goal. She has a lot of child-bearing years left in her, though, so perhaps the 'youngest child becomes teen' will be enough to aim for.

Restricting skill items is a bit tricky - she has a stolen TV which teaches cooking, fishing, gardening etc - does this mean they can't have a fishpond, a stove / fridge, or plants as well? Because all those items allow you to both increase your skill by doing, and produce the necessities of life. Perhaps TV should be disallowed instead.

My sims are living on a 20x20 lot, because there was nothing smaller in my neighbourhood. So physical space is less restricted for my family than it was meant to be.

[Avalikia]

Thus far, I think it is fine to allow as many toddler skill items as wanted.
I suspect that might be the case - I know the problem with the Sims 2 version is that you could sit a toddler down with a toddler toy and have them max skills before they became children. Can't be done in the Sims 3.

Skill books - can they only have one book at a time, or can they have the set of three books for one skill?
I'd say one book at a time, because otherwise you could have more than one Sim working on the same skill at the same time if they're far enough apart in level. I would not, however, consider swapping books at the bookstore as selling something you bought in buy mode when it comes to earning those bonus points.

Regarding traits, Snob is not available to babies, so can only be taken at the child stage at the earliest - and only if you get to choose.
Okay, I'll take that into account next time I update the rules.

I was wondering about letting the allowed careers include childcare - haven't tried it, but I believe it is done at home, and would only add to the madness.
I haven't ever tried the childcare career before, actually. That may even be something to offer bonus points for. Though on the other hand, I'm concerned about the amount of money they'd earn from that. The money issue should be a problem that hangs over you long into the challenge.

The self-employed careers such as gardener and painter might be okay too, as you have to sell things outside the lot to advance in them.
As you're not allowed to have any job go above level 1, I don't see how a Sim could work in either of these for very long without breaking that rule and losing points for that.

Opportunities are the biggest cash rewards they have had.
Perhaps that might be a good thing to add to the Bonus Points section then.

I sold a gnome that was fished up too.
Yeah, I'd count that as selling a fish.

Restricting skill items is a bit tricky
It is! Even in the Sims 2 version of the challenge it was trying to distinguish between what is and isn't a 'skill item'. But the creater of the original challenge explicitly said that more experiential types of skilling does not count. For example, a fridge/stove does not count as a cooking skill item. A cooking book or TV would.

My sims are living on a 20x20 lot, because there was nothing smaller in my neighbourhood. So physical space is less restricted for my family than it was meant to be.
That's a shame! This challenge really is a lot more insane with the smaller space. I have a mod that allows custom lot sizes so I can plop one down the right size, though in the Sims 2 version some people were taking a wrong sized lot and making it effectively 'smaller' by using terrain tools to warp the terrain for the portion of the lot that they weren't supposed to use.

[aelflaed]

I would not, however, consider swapping books at the bookstore as selling something you bought in buy mode when it comes to earning those bonus points. .
That's a good thing to know - put it into the first post too.

I haven't ever tried the childcare career before, actually. That may even be something to offer bonus points for. Though on the other hand, I'm concerned about the amount of money they'd earn from that. The money issue should be a problem that hangs over you long into the challenge..
Perhaps I'll have a go at it and find out.

...the creator of the original challenge explicitly said that more experiential types of skilling does not count. For example, a fridge/stove does not count as a cooking skill item. A cooking book or TV would.
Excellent. That should be made explicit in the rules too.

I considered fencing off half the lot, but had got underway without doing so. Praps I'll try that next time - or I could use up the illicit gnome money by bulldozing their house and rebuilding as a half-size lot.

[Klevkin]

I'd consider scrap to be a collectable - though if you brought it home and made something with it and sold that it would be allowed.


Hmm thats a bummer, I just assumed collectables were the rocks and gems and bugs and small animals etc.. :faceslap: cause well, you can make a "collection" of it...I don't actually get how you can collect scrap, cause well, it's all the same lol :D

so any thoughts on how to start out with money without loosing some points? Cause that's a regular mindboggler for me then :P

[aelflaed]

Learn to paint very quick! Steal an easel on your first day...or try sculpting. Or get a job, or sell fish or produce. Mooch. Steal stuff.

Regarding the daycare career, it seems that beginner carers will get $200 per work day (2 kids, monday to Thursday), plus $100 per week stipend. If the kids are sent home in a bad mood too often, the carer can lose their license, which costs $1000 to get back. The carer needs to be in a good mood to do well with the kids too.

Looks like a reasonable option, unless that wage is too high - not sure how it compares to the other beginner careers. I think I'll give daycare a go. The other self-employed options look too lucrative, or pointless - if you never sell produce, you won't get promoted as a gardener - but you'll get a ridiculously small weekly stipend forever, while losing the 'no job' bonus.

[Klevkin]

yeah but all that looses you some points :) and I didn't want that lol :D

[aelflaed]

So paint!

[Klevkin]

yeah but with 0 simoleans to start out with, how do you get your easel, without nicking it...cause my sim doesnt have that trait lol

[aelflaed]

Maybe you should plan your approach before creating your sim. Otherwise, choose which bonus to miss - one method of creating income is enough, and you can still try for the other bonuses.

I'm trying the daycare career. With minimal attention beyond nappy-changing and feeding, and one toy per daycare child, my sim is getting quite decent daily reports. His first day was $180, plus the stipend of $100 at the end of the week. Of course, the family has an actual house these days, with plumbing and all, so the carer's mood is generally quite good. Earlier in the challenge, it would have been much harder on the carer, even if the kids went home happy.

The founder has had ten children so far. I moved out two of the teens to make space, as having more than eight sims made the founder unselectable - her thumbnail disappeared from the side skewer. Very inconvenient.

(EDIT) Had my carer quit after four days, when the experience bar got him promoted in the middle of a work day. Was going to quit at the end of the day anyway, to prevent promotion, but got caught out. The earnings seem reasonable to me for the challenge, but at my current stage it was too easy for the kids to be kept happy - even without giving them attention beyond nappy-changing and feeding. There were two or three sims available to look after them most of the time, too - in the beginning there would be only one, which would be more of a challenge.

I think it would be interesting to try the daycare career for this challenge, but starting it early. And perhaps stipulating that only the official carer is allowed to interact with the daycare kiddies.

[aelflaed]

My challenge is nearly done, just waiting for the last kiddies to grow up. My founder has fifteen children, and the household's net worth is around $50 000 - not too sure about that figure, partly becauswe the game is not running, partly because I have messed around with it in the spirit of testing. I had to guesstimate their family funds entirely at one point when all cash was wiped by accident. I found it fairly easy to survive without a job, and wnet for all the bonuses. Never sold stolen objects, never sold collected items (except those specifically required for opportunities), never had a job, never used leftovers, never re-sold any item the family purchased, never sold produce or fish. Apart from the occasional testing or glitch. The house is two stories, and I did let mum use the phone to call the postie in the later stages - got sick of waiting to catch him at mail time, and several other things had interrupted my scorekeeping by then.

I'll edit with a guesstimated final score later. Some suggestions / observations:

It's a pain trying to avoid job promotions, so I suggest the rules should either never allow any job, or do it as the old Poverty Challenge used to, which was that the sim had to quit their job as soon as they got a promotion. Possible exception might be the daycare career, as long as it is started early in the challenge - Day 1 only, perhaps.

Kids should not be allowed to do afterschool activites - free off-lot skilling. Possibly field trips are also in this category, although my kids only got about five skill points this way, between them, in the whole challenge. Had no effect on their ability to max skills.

Must go now - will continue later!

[aelflaed]

Back again...eventually.

My final score is 269. Final household worth was $132 000, fifteen kids, various bonuses and maxed skills.

Note - I played with only the founder breeding - more kid points could have been earned if the children had also sprogged. Not sure which version was intended, so perhaps that could be clarified in the first post.

Thanks for sharing your challenge idea; it's been fun.

[Avalikia]

Hey, I liked the challenge enough myself enough to Sims 3 it and post it. :) Sorry I haven't commented much recently - my life got really busy. I intend to get back on this and update it soon though.

As far as the children go, you're definitely allowed to make them have kids of their own and do get more points for that as long as they do so before their youngest sibling becomes a teen.

And now my question, since you've played it all the way through, is what do you think about the scoring? The scores for everything I have up now are directly copy/pasted from the Sims 2 version, and reflect how hard everything was in that game. It should end up being that, for your completely average player with no particular strengths or weaknesses in playing the game, getting points one way is about as difficult as getting points another way aside from encouraging you to be neck deep in babies at all times. In other words, if anything made you go 'this part was hard, and I hardly got anything for it' or 'that was easy and I got a ton of points for it' I want to hear about those.

[aelflaed]

I spent a fair bit of time at the end trying to get a few more skills maxed - but really, more points could be had by increasing the family worth at that late stage. Far easier to earn another $1000 than to get a tenth skill point. By the end of the challenge, I could easily earn several thousand dollars in a day, with two top painters, a top inventor, a time machine and sundry things such as opportunities.

My inventor was working towards getting the simbot. Perhaps it's the spawners in hood I was using, but I couldn't find enough gem types to qualify. You also have to cut 50 gems to get the simbot. In the end I allowed her to have the collection helper just so I could find the things. It's easy enough to have gems cut and then keep them somewhere. She didn't earn any money from having the collection helper. The miner is quite good as a source of funds - because it is being used on the home lot, I presume we can sell what it produces?

I didn't bother breeding the founder's kids - had enough of babies, and their time was better spent making money than seeking a romantic partner. I also moved the teens out regularly to make space, as I didn't have a functioning 'more-than'8' mod for much of the time. For those who don't mind crowding, keeping all fifteen kids on the lot, with their money-earning abilities as they got older, could have added many more points. My founder's first child remained at home, plus various siblings of course.

I think there should be a point for completing a lifetime wish.
One point for maxing a skill is not really worthwhile, when compared to the money angle. The last couple of skillpoints take forever to get, and prevent that sim from earning ponts in other ways. A few skills will be easily filled - the founder's gardening and painting were pretty straightforward as she did those things constantly. Other sims got high skill in a number of areas, but only the two oldest children were able to max any of their skills completely. I'd suggest two extra points per maxed skill.

Making the kids be snobs didn't have much effect on play, and was never available to some kids, depending what traits had been chosen previously. I wouldn't bother stipulating any traits for the kids, unless you want them to be randomised.

My sims occasionally put leftovers into the fridge. Neat sims are annoying in this challenge, for that reason. I just took the food out again and left it on the bench, and didn't penalise myself for the sims' autonomous action. Perhaps that rule should be amended to " +5 points for never eating leftovers from the fridge". Also, incoming phone calls should be allowed as they are also autonomous, and it seems nit-picky to have to make the sims hang up on everyone. Bonus points for never making an outgoing call is still good.

I still think avoiding job promotions is not worth the trouble. I'd change the rules to allow one part-time job only, regardless of promotion, or make the working sim quit any time they get promoted to Level 2 in a fulltime career. Quitting after promotions will be a bigger earner, due to the promotion bonus. I'd go with the part-time option to reduce funding while also reducing annoyance.

Early on, my sim survived by stealing most furnishings, to save having to buy them (note- beds and fridges are not stealable, so must be purchased). Souvenirs from kids' field trips, and earnings from opportunities, were important sources of money, until the founder's paintings started to earn well. The famiy also got a stolen computer, and then novels were useful too.

Building - I re-built the lot on a 20 x 10 size. I didn't find it difficult to work in this space, but then I always have lots of sims in tiny houses. The space still seemed quite generous - I did have two stories though. The remainder of the lot needs to be completely fenced in to prevent them using it, so this should be done at the start if necessary, before the founder's money is deleted. I suggest that the lot limits be stipulated as a perimeter of 60 squares maximum. This allows for different shaped lots, and seems easier to check if your lot is acceptable.

What about using fencing in place of walls for privacy? It's a good trick, but does seriously reduce the need for actual housing. It would affect the bonus for a one-room house.

The pregnant teen start was tricky for a while, but then allowed my family to have at least two capable carers available for the rest of the babies. I think it made things easier in the end, so would downgrade the points bonus to +10.

Considering the name of this challenge, it would make sense to include the Ambitions celebrity system - perhaps a bonus if any of your sims manage to become celebrities. I don't have Showtime, but there may be parts of that which need to be allowed for too.

EDIT - I'm trying the challenge again with a young adult start, with a mandatory part time job. MUCH harder to get started - limited time to find/chat up a Daddy for the offspring, very little income from the job (which didn't have any hours for the first three days!) and no teens to help with babysitting - she now has four children and is about to give birth to the next lot. Money is being spent on babysitters so she can go out stealing furniture, meeting the Daddy for the next pregnancy (for some reason he won't turn up at her house- seems to be a glitch), and even getting the babies home from hospital. In fact, she shouldn't go to hospital with them, it would save $75 each time. She didn't manage to steal any money-making items for several nights, so there was basically no income at all until about Day 3. Now she has a sculpting station and an easel, so things are looking up. I also started this time with a pet dog - fairly irrelevant since the dog can't contribute to the income, slightly harder since the dog had to be kept bathed and fed as well as the founder. Overall, the pregnant teen start was hard right at the beginning, but then got easy, with longer age span to achieve things, and more help with the little ones.

I recommend allowing part-time jobs only, and not awarding any bonus for a teen start - but adding a bonus for starting with a modded pregnancy. Dealing with that first pregnancy without any facilities is tricky. Also, the age span needs to be limited to a certain total number of days - otherwise players can tweak the numbers quite widely to allow their sims more productive years. My current age span is 115 days, the game default is 90.