Replies: 33 (Who?), Viewed: 33431 times.
Page 1 of 2
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
Original Poster
#1 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 9:19 PM
Default Upload Policy Changes: Updates and Remixes of Broken/Abandoned Creations - Also, TSR Stuff
After a lot of discussion and consideration, we here at MTS are announcing several modifications to our policies regarding uploads. Please read carefully so you understand these changes, and the reasoning behind them.


Fixing Broken Creations:

As you may have noticed, in TS3 we tend to get a lot of patches. These patches update the base game with new features and code... but they also tend to break a lot of custom content.

The 1.7 patch that came with World Adventures caused serious issues with many custom objects, causing the infamous blue lots issue which destroyed users' saves with giant blue holes in the ground.

The 1.17 patch that came with Late Night has broken most custom windows, doors, and arches, as well as all script mods. Oh, and the muscle definition slider added in 1.17 doesn't work with non-default skins created before 1.17.

Custom content being broken with the patches seems to be a running theme with The Sims 3, and is likely to continue with more patches and more expansions. Just the way it goes, and something we have to deal with.

But the side effect of this is that -many- custom items have to be updated when there is a new patch/expansion. For about 90% of items, this is no big deal: the creator realizes something is wrong (or sees reports of issues with their creation/similar creations), brainy folks figure out why it's happening, they fix it, people download a fresh copy, and all is well.

But creators come and go... they lose interest with the game, they get busy with real life, or they just don't feel like updating anymore. And that's fine, but it's an awful shame to leave their creations to the entropy of patches, un-updated and useless because the creator is gone.

If a custom item is broken in some way by a patch or update, then someone else can now come along and update it, and share the updated version here at MTS.

However, this is subject to certain conditions:
  • The original creator must have been inactive for a period of at least 1 month, and has not stated when they will be returning (for vacation or personal reasons, etc.)

  • The original creator cannot have posted policies specifically forbidding updating or editing their mods. If they have no stated policy regarding updating, it's okay.

  • The original creator hasn't said on the upload or in their journal that they are working on an update.

  • Updates to items can be simple bugfixes or updates to work with the new patch(es)/expansion(s), or they can also include new features.

  • When sharing the update here, the updater must link and credit the original creator by name prominently in their upload, and make it clear that it is an update, not an original item of their own making. Just saying "based on (link)" is not enough. The link and credit should read something like this:
    The original version of this mod was by JoeSimmer123, who has been inactive for a while. So I have just updated this mod to work with the new 1.17 patch. JoeSimmer123's original version is here: (link)

  • Staff will edit the original, non-updated upload to add a prominent message on the top of the main description to link to the new, updated version of the mod so that people will know where to get an updated version.

  • If the original creator returns and the updates made to their creation are simply to fix it to work with a new patch/expansion (i.e. no new features added), they can use the updated version in their own thread (download it from the updated thread, attach it to their old thread, and remove the update notice), with credit and a link to the updater's profile. No sense in doing the same work twice. This doesn't apply if there have been new features added. If the updater has added new features, then they can maintain their version separately, or work something out between the two of them with the original creator.


The main reasoning behind the policies listed above for fixing broken stuff is to get working versions of useful mods out to the community, and to provide working links to things so broken mods aren't still downloaded by clueless folks. It's important to fix things up quickly, hence the relatively short time frame of 1 month.



Remixes of Abandoned Works:

Some of the coolest creations grow from a modification of someone else's work... My most popular work (my first Fanseefem set) are all based on Fanseelamb's textures.

By "remix" we mean basically any modification of the creator's work - using their textures or meshes, converting from one game to another, or including as part of a lot upload.

In the past, we've required either permission or a stated policy that says you can "remix." But many creators disappear, have no policies or unclear policies, and you can't ask permission because you can't contact them.

In light of this, we are now allowing "remixes" of other creators' work, even if you don't necessarily have permission and their policies don't state you can.

There are certain conditions on the "remix" policy:
  • The original creator must have been gone for a period of at least 6 months. On MTS, this will make the orange banner show up on their posts, stating that creator has been inactive and their work is unsupported.

  • The original creator does not have policies (either on their profile or in their posts) stating that you cannot do whatever type of remix you're doing.

  • You must provide a link back to the original creator's profile/creation in the text of your post, and state what you've used. Just saying "Based on this: (link)" is not enough - you need to state the creator's name, the name of what you've used by them and how (mesh, textures, whatever), and a link back to them.


If you don't like the idea of your work being edited...

We understand if you feel protective of your work, or find the idea of someone "messing with" your stuff uncomfortable. That's why we will be careful not to allow things that you've said you don't want.

If you're uploading here on MTS, you can edit your policies. These policies show on your profile, and MTS staff will check your policies before anything based on your work is approved. If the options there are insufficient for you, under Edit Profile, you can type in the "About Me / Policy / Other Text" with whatever your wishes are, if you wish to restrict edits of your work.

On other sites, how you state your policies may vary, but at the very least you can always put "My policies are:" and an explanation in the text of your upload.

If your policies say you cannot do something without permission, then we will not approve something based on your work without permission!

If you care about what people do with your work, then you should also care enough to put up a policy explaining your wishes.


Regarding TSR Content in Uploads:

For a long time here at MTS, we have had policies restricting the use of content from The Sims Resource in uploads, due to items pay/free status there changing often.

However, after a lot of consideration and time to review the frequency of the changes in pay/free status, we have decided to lift this restriction. While creators at TSR do sometimes go pay after being a regular/select artist, this happens fairly rarely... and likely no more often than free creators from other sites suddenly going pay.

As a result, you can now use free items at TSR in MTS uploads. Any pay items - that is, ANY items by "Featured Artists" (FAs) at TSR cannot be used as their pay/free status does still change. Items by regular creators and "Select Artists" (SAs) CAN be used.

Please also be aware that if, when uploading a sim, house, world, etc., where the custom content pictured is required, and you use an item by a creator at TSR... If that creator of the item you used becomes a Featured Artist (and thus, their work becomes pay), your upload may be tagged (hidden from public view). You will then need to switch the item to one that will stay free all the time. This doesn't apply to non-required items (hair shown in a picture where you're uploading clothing) though. If you don't like this possibility, please choose a different item to use in your sim, lot, and world uploads.


In closing...

We hope these changes will make MTS a more creative place, with more useful stuff for everyone to enjoy.

Please note that these changes may not yet be reflected in all areas of the site such as the Creator Guidelines or the messages that display before you can upload. We will be editing things soon, but as this is a new change, you may see some things that use the old policies: this news message is correct and the thing to go by for uploads now.

We understand some of these changes may be controversial, but we hope you also understand that these changes are not made lightly, and have been discussed carefully for their merits. We have made the changes in hopes of fostering a spirit of free and open creation, while still allowing creators to retain the rights to their own work if they so choose.

Please feel free to ask questions, and we will try to answer/clarify things to the best of our abilities.

Create it, share it, play it - and happy simming!
9 users say thanks for this. (Who?)
Advertisement
The other one
#2 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 9:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HystericalParoxysm
However, after a lot of consideration and time to review the frequency of the changes in pay/free status, we have decided to lift this restriction. ....As a result, you can now use free items at TSR in MTS uploads.


Squeeeee! I'm so happy!! I'd never pay for CC but my favourite window/door creator only seems to upload to TSR (free) and I've not been able to upload soooo many houses because I've used his creations....but now I can!

Guys, rules are good! Rules help control the fun. ~ Monica E. Geller
Theorist
#3 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 10:39 PM
Yay! You have no idea how many times I've had something I want to edit but the creator has been missing/inactive for a long time

And since this seems to the appropriate time I just wanted to bring up something that's always bugged me: There are a few things in the uploading cue that just don't make sense in TS3 any more... I can name a couple off the top of my head
- Lot sizes being restricted to 1-6 (TS3 works by 10s and it's not always even numbers, it should go from 1-64)
- Naturals/Unnaturals in hair since you can change color now
- Geneticized (sp?) skin/eyes
- Townie Friendly skin/eyes
There are more but none I can think of atm

It's not that big of a deal but I wasn't sure if you were aware or not

Hi I'm Paul!
Field Researcher
#4 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 11:08 PM
Now I can use the Companion Cube side table I found at TSR!

Human beings are a very irrational species. Some of them are even afraid of pickles.
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#5 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 11:31 PM
Well, we can't have search parameters (e.g. geneticised, hair colour types etc) available for TS2 but not for TS3, so we trust TS3 creators to ignore those options which aren't applicable just as we trust TS2 creators to ignore options such as "Ambitions tattoo". I forget how the lot sizes work now, but we can have a look and see if there's a more sensible way of doing them.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Theorist
#6 Old 28th Nov 2010 at 11:48 PM
I guessed that that might be the reason

Hi I'm Paul!
Test Subject
#7 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 12:40 AM
Hi there. I have a problem with my sims3 Late night expancion...it dosent work with awesomemod What can i do to make it work? Pls can someone help me with this cuz i really wnt to play this new expancion...
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#8 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 1:17 AM
Well, I reckon you should fix it and upload it here, prominently crediting and linking to the original creator's upload, having ensured that the creator hasn't logged in for at least a month and isn't currently working on a fix.


Alternatively you could double-check that all your mods are compatible with LN and with each other, and remove or update those that aren't. And if that doesn't work, try the Help menu.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Theorist
#9 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 1:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafelNunes23
Hi there. I have a problem with my sims3 Late night expancion...it dosent work with awesomemod What can i do to make it work? Pls can someone help me with this cuz i really wnt to play this new expancion...


This is totally the wrong place to ask this but all you have to do is go to MATY and download the updated version

Hi I'm Paul!
Destroyer of Worlds
staff: administrator
#10 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 3:05 AM
I am not too familiar with TSR's policy (I rarely download from there due to...well, a lot of things), however, for clarification purposes: what if a creator is a featured creator for TS2 but only a select creator for TS3, or vice versa? Is there a difference in policy by game and will uploads be permitted for free TS3 content from said creator?

Heaven Sims | Avendale Legacy
"On the internet, you can be anything you want. It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid."
Forum Resident
#11 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 4:30 AM
I have another question: We know non-defaults didn't work with LN, but that's no longer the case if they're converted into the new format using CmarNYC's Skininator v4.1. And that's the thing. Because skin converting has become pretty painless and DIY-ish thanks to this program, is it possible that we convert a certain default skin into non-default, pack it with the release and credit the original creator?

a.k.a chicken-blast @deviantART
Blenderized to Pieces
retired moderator
#12 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 5:21 AM
I am glad to see this! I have been at MTS for many years and have seen many talented creators come and go and we lose their stuff or their stuff becomes unusable with game updates. I think this goes well with MTS policy quite well. I approve and hope someone fixes any of my stuff that might break.

I haven't dabbled in TS3 stuff, mainly because I end up fighting the game when I'd rather be making things (like this weekend STORE DOWNLOADS BROKE AGAIN! GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I am just giving up on the store... tired of reinstalling this dumb game, because that does not fix this particular problem....) ....

...anyway,. I think this is a great move and helps to keep the content useful to current and future players if the creators are too busy to keep up with it all. :0)




....now if Speedtree were really, really cheap.... or if some generous donor wanted to grant a copy to creators at MTS to use.............. that would be a Santa Angle!)
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
Original Poster
#13 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 8:56 AM
heaven_sent - If one can be a FA/SA/whatever individually by game (I don't know if they do it this way), then yeah, as long as they're not a FA for the game's stuff you're wanting to use (not a FA for TS3 and you want to use their TS3 stuff) and their policies allow it, then it's fine.

dutch_1991 - Yes. That'd fall under fixing broken stuff - they need to have been gone at least a month (or get their permission if they're still around) and you can do that.
Inventor
#14 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 9:05 AM
This is actually quite great (regarding the tsr stuff being allowed in uploads) as many a time I'd be uploading a lot, and then realise the windows come from tsr. :P
Field Researcher
#15 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 10:48 PM
As an author, I totally agree with the new idea.

Like many author, I don't like knowing that my work is used in ways I didn't intended. Also, I take any comment regarding my work as very personal, and it takes me a lot of courage to accept a negative comment. However, an author has to accept that s/he is not perfect, and sometimes makes mistakes, or screw miserably.

For these cases, my policies (loosely adapted from my interpretation of the GPL) always allowed the release of a modified version of my mods, though the rules here prohibited these in the first place. I believe these new rules will render my policies as legal, and I hope my policies are clear enough that a moderator would allow someone to upload a new version of my work following the new policies stated in the original post.

Temporarily leaving the community is something I am guilty of, at several occasions (I fit in the "get busy with real life" category). Just check at my mods, you will notice a delay of nearly two years between my older an newer mods. Though I don't mod for TS3, those that read me know that I don't have Appartment Life and that I have no intend it acquiring it, if if one of my mods happens to be incompatible, I would be glad that someone picks up the tasks of updating it.

Now if I understand those new policies correctly, I am now allowed to post a fixed version of an older TS2 mod which author cannot be contacted anymore?
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#16 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 11:26 PM
Well, we have always allowed edits of work if the original creator's policy allows edits - so if your terms say that modifications are allowed, that would have been fine. This change is intended more to allow modifications when the original creator has no policy (or their policy is unclear), and cannot be contacted - so no-one knows whether they would allow the modification or not. In the past, we have assumed they would not; now, we presume they would.

Yes. As long as the original creator of the TS2 mod hasn't said that you are not allowed to edit it, you can do so.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Instructor
#17 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 11:30 PM
Awesome, this is a much-needed change A couple of clarifications: Does this apply to both TS2 and TS3 items? Also, what happens if the creator had no do/don't, but a "Please ask permission" policy and then vanished without a trace?
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#18 Old 29th Nov 2010 at 11:48 PM
Ambular, this applies to both TS2 and TS3 stuff. If a creator had an ask permission policy, then we'll respect that - we're changing our assumptions in the absence of information, but if there is information then we'll stick to it.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Test Subject
DELETED POST
30th Nov 2010 at 4:24 AM
This message has been deleted by HystericalParoxysm. Reason: Please don't quote the whoooooole thing!
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 3:31 AM
This is greatly needed but I would add one more thing, and this isn't just me trying to find a loophole. It's common sense. If a creator has abandoned their creation, then they have also abandoned their policy on that creation.*

Especially if we want to use the damn thing and the only reason we can't is because they got bored with the sims and hit the road without bothering to give permission to have it updated ***before they had any way of knowing*** that updating their creation would be required. Most of those creators were probably assuming that their original object would remain useful forever without any modifications ever being neccessary, while right now we're magically assuming that somehow they could see into the future and could foresee that permission to update would be required in order for their creation to remain useful.

I can understand the desire to respect the wishes of previous creators who were generous enough to make something for us -- that's extremely thoughtful of MTS staff and yet we are right now assuming too much in regards to their original intentions. They had no way of knowing that their stuff would need to be updated with every exp pack, and had no way of knowing a specific type of permission would need to be given in order to continue using their creation.

*That has all kinds of precedent in property law, yanno.
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 3:51 AM
It's actually very easy for a creator to create something, get bored and wander off, and STILL RETAIN ownership rights. It's called "contact information". As in, "I really have better things to do with my time than hang out with sim freaks, but if you absolutely must, here's where you can reach me. Don't contact me unless it's an emergency". If they don't even bother to do that, then yes, they have completely abandoned their property.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
Original Poster
#21 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 8:49 AM
coffeebreak - We're trying to strike a balance between the creator's right to retain control of their creations, and the community getting updates and stuff even if someone has left. If someone doesn't care that their stuff is updated even if they've left, they can change their policies to reflect that - now, before they leave. We're not going to violate someone's actual written policies. If they cared enough to want people to ask permission, then we're going to assume they still care, even if they're gone. If they don't have policies written or don't ask that people ask permission, we'll assume they don't care.

I'd really rather not have creators that were gone for a couple months coming back and getting upset because their policies said "ask for permission before editing" and seeing that it was ignored because they were gone for a bit. If they didn't care in the first place, they wouldn't have put that in their policies.

I do see your point, but creators can be a sensitive bunch, and the way we've got it right now seems like the best balance of allowing updates without pissing off creators.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#22 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 6:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HystericalParoxysm
The main reasoning behind the policies listed above for fixing broken stuff is to get working versions of useful mods out to the community, and to provide working links to things so broken mods aren't still downloaded by clueless folks.
Hmm, I'm still not convinced that it's a desirable situation to have script/object mods updated by folks who can't make script mods in the first place. But time will tell if that works out, I guess.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
Original Poster
#23 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 6:29 PM
Buzzler - It takes more than a little bit of brains to be able to edit the scripts at all. If someone's capable of getting that far, they're probably capable of at least doing the namespace changes necessary for the 1.17/later updates. I'd say someone with that level of skill probably -can- make a script or object mod - they may just learn by poking at someone else's and making those changes. If there's major issues, they'll likely run into it in testing - and if not, downloaders will post about it, and we can pull it till it's fixed. I'd say the learning curve to do it at all will weed out the complete morons who shouldn't even be trying to do something of that level of difficulty.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#24 Old 1st Dec 2010 at 8:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HystericalParoxysm
Buzzler - It takes more than a little bit of brains to be able to edit the scripts at all.
Err, let's say that's not the impression I got so far.

Quote:
I'd say the learning curve to do it at all will weed out the complete morons who shouldn't even be trying to do something of that level of difficulty.
It will when a patch breaks an updated mod in a less simplistic way than the LN patch.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Theorist
#25 Old 3rd Dec 2010 at 3:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzler
Hmm, I'm still not convinced that it's a desirable situation to have script/object mods updated by folks who can't make script mods in the first place. But time will tell if that works out, I guess.

This, pretty much. The thread in the modding discussion made me go . I mean, at least try to make a script mod of your own before trying to do something like messing with other people's.
Page 1 of 2
Back to top