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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 9th Feb 2013 at 10:01 PM Last edited by gazania : 28th Sep 2013 at 4:30 PM.
Default I didn't corrupt it .. oh, maybe I might have? Removing NPCs/about PT mods
After staying with the same multi-PT replacement for years, I decided to switch to another recent one I liked. The kid is cute, but ...

I noticed this creator named the PTs in-game. In my last set, the creator simply followed the PTAlien001, 002, etc. scheme that I would presume that EA used. In this one, I noticed that the parent was NOT "PTAlien", but an actual name with a PT1, 2 designation, as in "JohnSmithPT1". While creators do this in their overview, they usually don't carry it into the game. The names are "decorative", so to speak. (EDIT ... I was wrong on that.)

Would this corrupt my neighborhood? Fortunately, I haven't done an alien abduction for a while, and have since reset all my other neighborhoods, so only my Riverblossom would be affected. I'm just concerned that since this new PT has a name, the game might be confused when dealing with the child or two I spawned from previous abductions from PTs in that neighborhood who didn't have a specific name. Or did the creator simply get a bit fancy in-game, and the game files are actually still the same?

If I did just corrupt the 'hood, that might explain the really nasty black screen exit crash I had yesterday. (And if so, here I am whining that the CC I downloaded couldn't possibly have caused it! Big oops.) While I don't like resetting before my three-year limit, if I have to, I have to.

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
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#2 Old 9th Feb 2013 at 10:08 PM
Have you checked this site before?

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=456523
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#3 Old 9th Feb 2013 at 10:14 PM Last edited by gazania : 9th Feb 2013 at 10:46 PM.
I suppose that would help. I do have that. Let me check. Thanks!

EDIT ... The Hood Checker didn't find anything beyond the usual stuff it finds, so I guess that's good. If there was a "missing Sim', it definitely would have picked it up. Thanks again, CremedelaCreme. That was a "duh" moment on my part; one way I could have verified whether there was any corruption. In another "duh" moment, after searching through all my Sims, it turned out that my other alien child was in another neighborhood! "Duh" again. Whatever caused that crash, the PT name apparently wasn't it.

Though it does make me wonder. If I decide, "Nah, I want to try another PT replacement", is that going to affect my neighborhood? After all, the neighborhood now has a "JohnSmithPT1" child. If I get rid of "JohnSmithPT1" (and that does mean replacing the package, of course) and I now have "jimmyJonesPT1", will that eventually bork the neighborhood, since the former PT no longer exists? I don't SEE it in the list of VBTs that can mess up a neighborhood, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't discovered still another way to corrupt it!

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
#4 Old 9th Feb 2013 at 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
I suppose that would help. I do have that. Let me check. Thanks!

EDIT ... The Hood Checker didn't find anything beyond the usual stuff it finds, so I guess that's good. If there was a "missing Sim', it definitely would have picked it up. Thanks again, CremedelaCreme. That was a "duh" moment on my part; one way I could have verified whether there was any corruption. In another "duh" moment, after searching through all my Sims, it turned out that my other alien child was in another neighborhood! "Duh" again. Whatever caused that crash, the PT name apparently wasn't it.

Though it does make me wonder. If I decide, "Nah, I want to try another PT replacement", is that going to affect my neighborhood? After all, the neighborhood now has a "JohnSmithPT1" child. If I get rid of "JohnSmithPT1" (and that does mean replacing the package, of course) and I now have "jimmyJonesPT1", will that eventually bork the neighborhood, since the former PT no longer exists? I don't SEE it in the list of VBTs that can mess up a neighborhood, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't discovered still another way to corrupt it!


I think it depends on what the default replacement is exactly replacing. From what I know of CAS default replacements, CAS default replacements may be put in, and the face shape may be used on a particular Sim. The Sim placed in the neighborhood keeps his face shape, regardless of future CAS default replacement changes. Pollination Technician default replacements seem to only replace the face shape, so they may work the same way as regular face template replacements. So, if you can install the new replacement and the new baby may be born with that Sim's "genes". In reality, it would just be the look of the alien Sim that matters, not the existence of exact face template.
Site Helper
#5 Old 9th Feb 2013 at 11:38 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Feb 2013 at 12:37 AM.
I seem to remember that multi-PT replacements contain the user data for each PT in the CC package file. If you remove the CC, it seems likely that the game will no longer be able to find that PT's user data, which wouldn't be good. That is, unless the new multi-PT mod uses the exact same Sim IDs. Does it?

The HoodChecker wouldn't find any additional errors, since it doesn't look at CC. This means that it can't tell the difference between a sim with CC user data and a sim with no user data at all.

The game will know the difference though. To the game, this would be similar to deleting the character file for that PT.

It sounds like you may have found a new item to add to the hood corruption list.

[Update:] I just downloaded a couple of multi-PT mods and confirmed that they all have different Sim IDs. So, the only question left is whether the game uses the user data directly from the CC. From what people have said in the HoodChecker thread, it sounds like it does. So, removing a multi-PT mod is just like deleting some of your user files. This will corrupt your neighborhood.

When installing a multi-PT mod, you actually install several files. One of them affects the selection of the parent; that mod can be removed safely. The rest are the user files for the various PTs and should never be removed, even if you install a new multi-PT mod.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#6 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 1:28 AM Last edited by gazania : 10th Feb 2013 at 2:05 AM.
Leave it to me to rediscover another way to corrupt a neighborhood. It looks like reset time for one of them. Either I stick the old one back in and reset Riverblossom, or stay with the new one and reset the other neighborhood before even going into it again. I suppose I should take a really good look and choose the PT mod I want ... and don't change it unless I'm prepared to do a massive reset. Just use plastic surgery if I want prettier aliens!

Uh, oh ... aren't there alien children and ancestors in the other neighborhoods and sub-neighborhoods, like Stella Terrano in La Fiesta Tech, and Nestor Caliente in Pleasantview? Terrific. I suppose one way to find out whether a massive reset is in order is to check the alien characters running around in my neighborhoods or in the family trees (including EA's characters) and see if the parent name got altered in any way. If it did not, and the original thumbnail is still in there, I might be OK. If I'm getting a "mystery Sim"-like name or the thumbnail is missing, I'm not. To make sure, I could probably also get Dina pregnant by ... someone ... and see if that action alters the family tree in any way, since I now have a new replacement set.

I have no idea whether I altered those core files. I'm hoping I didn't. I simply followed the instructions for the download: stick the thing in the Downloads folder! Wouldn't one have to go into the files and mess around with them, or physically delete the older Sims?

It seems like certain people did know about this (http://www.digitalperversion.net/ga...p?topic=6076.0). Lucky me found the one who didn't. Too bad I didn't find this one first and ask about it here to make sure I didn't mess things up.

Oh, well. Thanks, Mootilda!

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#7 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 1:58 AM
Would this be the same for a default PT like this one http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=266055 I'm using one similar to that from an old thread on here, but I'm not sure where that is now.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#8 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 2:02 AM
I'm wondering that as well.

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#9 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 2:03 AM
I haven't removed him but I was thinking about it. Also I've never seen a warning on the multi PT packs I've seen around on LJ or GOS and I'm wondering is this known? First time I've heard of it, thanks gazania and Mootilda! Sorry your game might be corupted though.

If this is the case that removing a multi pt pack causes corruption then I think every uploaded set to this site needs to have a warning added.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Site Helper
#10 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 2:32 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Feb 2013 at 2:50 AM.
The default pollination technician has its user data in the installation files. If you replace him with a new default pollination technician, then I expect that the new one will have the same SimID as the old one and that there will be no problem at all removing that mod. Note that I will have to do some research to ensure that the SimIDs are identical.

[Update:]

Verified that joandsarah77's link is not the user data for a sim. It behaves more like a default face replacement and should be completely safe to remove or replace.

Multi-PT and -Plantsim mods contain the user data for additional sims and must not be removed. However, they do not remove the default PT, who is still in the installation files.

The parent name may be a clue, but what you really need to check is that all of your sims have user data which matches their SimID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
I have no idea whether I altered those core files. I'm hoping I didn't.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Which core files are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
I simply followed the instructions for the download: stick the thing in the Downloads folder! Wouldn't one have to go into the files and mess around with them, or physically delete the older Sims?
No. Multi-PT mods are one of those mods that cannot be removed completely, once you've installed them. That's just the nature of the beast.
Mad Poster
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Original Poster
10th Feb 2013 at 2:46 AM
This message has been deleted by gazania.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#11 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 2:56 AM Last edited by gazania : 10th Feb 2013 at 3:17 AM.
Sigh again. I guess I might as well accept that my game is altered. Period.

I'm trying to piece things together, looking at Fwiffo's tutorial, and it looks like that the story goes like this:

In the beginning, there was one PT. The original dude. (It's been a LONG time since I just had one.) Then Fwiffo found a way to add extra ones, to give your Sims more variety. Later, others added their versions, including, apparently, the one I just downloaded.

IF l didn't have more than one or two custom children from the old multi-PT set (I recently reset ALL of my neighborhoods within the last year or so, and haven't seen an alien abduction in several months), it might just be a matter of either finding that Daddy's file from my backup (I did not download BO's one with the female) and adding it to the others, or resetting Riverblossom, deleting the new set, and sticking the old multi group back in. I did not save the other neighborhoods when checking them out, and this was my first child with the new multi set. It's a bit too late to go back to just one now, and others HAVE played multi sets and survived over the last five years or so.

Or am I clueless again?

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
Scholar
#12 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
I seem to remember that multi-PT replacements contain the user data for each PT in the CC package file. If you remove the CC, it seems likely that the game will no longer be able to find that PT's user data, which wouldn't be good. That is, unless the new multi-PT mod uses the exact same Sim IDs. Does it?


Well crap. There goes my custom hood. I had a single PT default for a long time, but replaced it with a multi PT set, and then noticed all the children from the old PT had the default maxis PT. How long do I have, doctor?
I guess its not the end of the world, as ive been itchy to start another new hood, but mmaann
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#13 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:09 AM
I just posted a warning about this to my LJ, hope it saves someone else’s game.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Site Helper
#14 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:10 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Feb 2013 at 4:00 AM. Reason: Clarification
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
It LOOKS like I would have to find what alien packages in the old set fathered my custom Sims aliens, and stick them back in?
Yes, that's a good idea. It will prevent any further corruption caused by the missing user data. Unfortunately, if your existing corruption has already spread somewhere else in your neighborhood, it will not fix that existing corruption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
I meant the original PTs, but of course, I altered them when installing the multi-PT mods.
No, that's incorrect. Multi-PT mods do not alter the original PT in any way. Installing a multi-PT mod does not cause any problems. Removing the additional PTs from a multi-PT mod is a really bad idea, even if the PT had no children. That's because the PT is still in your neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Racer
Well crap. There goes my custom hood. I had a single PT default for a long time, but replaced it with a multi PT set, and then noticed all the children from the old PT had the default maxis PT. How long do I have, doctor?
That's the correct behavior. I see no reason to believe that your neighborhood has been corrupted. Did you remove the PTs from your multi-PT mod? That is what causes corruption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I just posted a warning about this to my LJ, hope it saves someone else’s game.
Would you like to give us a link, so that I can check and make sure that your warning makes sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I haven't removed him but I was thinking about it. Also I've never seen a warning on the multi PT packs I've seen around on LJ or GOS and I'm wondering is this known?
I've never used these mods, but I see that some of these have warnings about removing the PTs and some don't. So, it looks like some people know and some don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
If this is the case that removing a multi pt pack causes corruption then I think every uploaded set to this site needs to have a warning added.
I agree. I'm not sure how one would go about this. For mods where the creator is still active, it should be enough to post and ask them to include a warning in the original post. For creators who are inactive, I suppose that someone could post in Site Issues to ask the mods to add a warning. Just be sure to include a link to the download thread(s).

I also added this to the hood corrupted wiki article, although it might want rewording.
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10th Feb 2013 at 3:13 AM
This message has been deleted by Mootilda.
Scholar
#15 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:21 AM
Oh. To mootilda: No, I still have that default in my game, and have had a couple children with it. well, thats good to hear anyway. Thank you.
Site Helper
#16 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Racer
Oh. To mootilda: No, I still have that default in my game, and have had a couple children with it. well, thats good to hear anyway. Thank you.
I honestly believe that you are completely safe. Just be careful not to remove the PTs if you ever decide to remove the multi-PT mod.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#17 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:30 AM
Quote:
Would you like to give us a link, so that I can check and make sure that your warning makes sense?


Good idea, because I wasn't really sure what some of what I put down meant exactly. (I copy pasted a line of the original post) I may have got things a little muddled.

http://joandsarah.livejournal.com/83611.html

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Site Helper
#18 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:34 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Feb 2013 at 4:32 AM. Reason: Clarification
Here's the problem that I've having: we need to express that all multi-PT mods consist of two parts: the package which changes the selection of the PT, and the packages which contain the user data for the additional PTs. You can remove or replace the selection mod safely, but the PTs themselves should never be removed. Each multi-PT mod has both of these parts, but there's no naming convention that I know of. So, how do people know which piece is safe to remove? There will usually be only one package which is safe to remove and all of the rest of the packages are actual PTs.

So, your journal entry isn't quite correct. You say that multi-PT mods are unsafe to remove, but there is one and only one package in the set which can be removed safely.

For any specific set, the creator or another modder could tell you which of the packages is safe to remove. You can remove the package which contains the ""NPC - Get Alien Dad - NID"" BHAV, but do not remove any of the packages which have an OBJD.

But, how does a layperson know which one is safe to remove?

Here's the updated wiki article about Hood Corruption:
http://simswiki.info/wiki.php?title...Hood_Corruption
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#19 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:46 AM
Wouldn't most people just remove all the files when they switch PT packs though? I know I would-before seeing this. (Not that I have read up on how to use one, so if the instructions were clear not to remove certain files I wouldn't) I added the line about the OBJD and I made the link to this thread clickable. .

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Site Helper
#20 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:50 AM
Exactly. Removing all of the files is wrong and will corrupt your neighborhood and it's great to warn people about this issue.

However, if you want to stop using the mod, then you can safely remove the selection mod and your game will safely revert to the original behavior. If you want to install a new multi-PT mod, the old selection mod will conflict with the new selection mod, so you will want to remove the old one.

I just wish that there were an easy way to tell people which package they can remove. I suppose that warning them to never remove a multi-PT mod is better than letting them believe that it's safe to remove everything.

Ideally, every multi-PT or -plantsim mod would tell you which package can be removed, and warn you not to remove any of the other packages.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#21 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 3:58 AM
I'll add what you said there.

I figure if they want more info they will click the link and check out this thread, but a lot of people don't read help threads, mod overviews or read me's very carefully at all and I figure they are likely the ones to also pull out the entire PT mod when changing to a new one.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Site Helper
#22 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 4:03 AM
That looks better. I suppose that we'll see what kind of responses you get and then we can see whether the wording is too confusing.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#23 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 4:40 AM Last edited by gazania : 10th Feb 2013 at 4:53 AM.
Now I'm starting to feel really confused.

I keep reading on certain multi-PT downloads that you're supposed to REMOVE the original Multi-PT mod first; that you can't have two at the same time. That might be confusing to many people. Many probably did what you usually do with default templates in Downloads without even thinking; take out the old one, put in the new, as joandsarah77 wrote..

Sounds like I need to reset Riverblossom if I don't want a whole bunch of older PT files. Since I didn't save the other neighborhoods, there shouldn't have been any corruption. While I liked the new multi-PT mod, I didn't like it THAT much! At least this is a neighborhood corruption. It could be worse. Luckily, I have those backup files.

And reading the wiki (blushes). I am now indirectly involved in the Wiki. I had kind of hoped this wouldn't have been for a clueless moment, though!

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
Site Helper
#24 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 4:52 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Feb 2013 at 5:13 AM. Reason: Fix typo
All of the multi-PT mods that I've seen consist of a number of packages. The problem is that you are supposed to remove one and only one of those packages; the rest of the packages must remain in your Downloads folder to avoid corrupting your neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
Now I'm starting to feel really confused.
I'm really sorry if I'm not explaining things well. I never thought about this issue until today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
Sounds like I need to reset Riverblossom if I don't want a whole bunch of older PT files.
If you have a backup from before you removed the original multi-PT files, that sounds like the best option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazania
Since I didn't save the other neighborhoods, there shouldn't have been any corruption.
Unfortunately, you'll notice that all of your neighborhood packages are modified every time that you run the game, regardless of whether you actually played the neighborhood. I'd be really interested in knowing whether the new PTs were added to your (supposedly untouched) neighborhoods during that save, or whether you need to actually play a neighborhood for them to be added.

There are several ways to check. You could run the HoodChecker and see how many sims without user data are reported. Or, you could open the neighborhood in SimPE and look for the new PTs. If they are there, then there's at least a potential for corruption.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#25 Old 10th Feb 2013 at 6:37 AM Last edited by gazania : 10th Feb 2013 at 9:59 PM. Reason: I apparently gave Boiling Oil a sex change. Sorry!
EDITED again.

It turned out I did a backup longer ago than I thought. I can still use it, though. I can assure you it was LONG before this mod mess.

But I might have done something so stupid that it might have been brilliant. Or then again, just plain stupid. I just found out that I never deleted the original PT packages when I saved the game in Riverblossom! (sorry.... couldn't get on this computer again until just now. Someone else was constantly on this machine for the last day or so). I accidentally deleted just the one template file. That's what happens when you run the game when you've had little sleep. I really thought I deleted them. I could have SWORN I deleted them. I remember searching the Downloads folder to make sure I deleted them.

I think I've lost it. Actually, I was probably too distracted and groggy.

I did pull them out today, but never saved after pulling them out, and never did any alien abductions after I pulled them out, even without saving, and just put them back in, sans the template.

So now I really do have the option of clearing out the files and restoring Riverblossom to an earlier point, or leaving all of them in. I'm taking it, though, that my Sims won't be using those old PTs anymore, then. :/

I didn't see ANY PT names in the Sim descriptions. Let me check that tutorial. It was by Fwiffo, I think? Where are these little PITAs? Perhaps the tute has a clue.

EDIT .... I just looked at joandsarah77's LiveJournal. Here is where I'm getting confused again.

Creators such as Boiling Oil are very precise about where the multi-PT mod is. They name it precisely. Even someone like I would know where this thing is! It says "MOD". I even downloaded his pack and checked (but did NOT put them in my game, though they are really nice), to see if any shred of my sanity is still left at this point. Somehow, I don't think "mod" refers to a group of people back in the 60s who wore suits and rode on motorbikes.

I now have my original PTs back in, save for the template. I didn't put the template back in because I have no idea whether I should. And I might not be entirely wrong.

My first thought that a template is NOT a mod. A mod is a mod. A template is a template. But in my two PT downloads, I have the following: Template, PT1.package, PT2.package, PT3.package, PT4.package. Not a "mod" in sight. Honestly, I think we PT newbies should salute Boiling Oil, who apparently devised the PT download to be "Multi-PT packs for Pollination Technician Idiots". He explains it so precisely that you have to have the attention span of a goldfish to not comprehend it.

But wait! A template is perhaps not what it seems. I opened it with Sim PE and behold! A BHAV! And it looks like a whoppin' one at that. ("Get Alien Dad.") And the old one has the same thing. Even I could see how this could be a problem. Could this older little devil be what I was supposed to have deleted ... in disguise?

And through the most stupid, random luck one could have under this circumstance, could I have done the right thing by accidentally deleting the old template, and putting in the new one before I fired up the game? Maybe I should get less sleep more often.

Of course, this renders my original four rather impotent, I imagine. I don't see them in the REAL templates. (Really, this is starting to sound like Sim Bin the Family Bin, and Sim Bin the name everyone gives to the people who appear in the white boxes below your neighborhood.) I see just the new ones plus one more. I am presuming those are none other than my current Fab Four PTs and the Head Honcho default guy.

So I am not putting that template back in there unless someone tells me I'm actually crazy not to, I'm leaving well enough alone, and I think I'll stay with my current Riverblossom until I find out that I actually did screw up, and will now have to reset/roll back EVERYTHING.

What have I learned recently? A Sim Bin may not necessarily be THE Sim Bin, and a multi-PT template may be much more than just the likenesses of Sims you see in what is really the Sim Bin.

I respectfully request those doing multi-PT sets to presume like Boiling Oil that everyone who downloads this is clueless like yours truly. It might reduce corruption in a lot of neighborhoods.

Thanks to ALL free-site creators, admins and mods.

RIP Sunni ... truly a ray of light.
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