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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 1:08 AM
Default Please HELP with a routing issue!!
So I've been editing Sunset Valley for the past 2 months and I thought I was done today until I noticed some weird routing patterns while playtesting it today. I hope someone can help since this is the only thing left to actually finish the world.
The areas this issue appears is the Mirabello Plaza and the Little Corsican Bistro lots. The issue appeared AFTER I replaced the lots with other (identical, but slightly edited) ones.
In the attached screenshots you can see 2 circles and 2 triangles. These represent the starting and ending point of a sim's route trip. (From circle to circle, from triangle to triangle etc.) The blue arrows represent the route that the sim should normally take (and did take before I replaced the lots) and the red arrows represent the route the sim WILL actually take (after I replaced the lots.)

Now I tried adding the original lots back but the issue still persists. I'm quite certain that this has to do something with the fences being on the edge of the lot, because after testing some more it seems that the issue appears only after replacing the fences in build mode (or actually replacing the lot in edit town mode.) Rebuilding routing data doesn't really change anything while removing the fences does actually make the issue disappear, however I really want to keep them. I wish someone can help me resolve this issue since not only does it look extremely silly it can also create some terrible routing lag. I'm sure there is a way to do this (since it has been done in the original SV) so any kind of help is greatly appreciated. :D
Screenshots
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 1:31 AM
I have lots that are fenced that are totally fine one day and then inaccessible the next. Drives me nuts. I have always heard fences should be at least one space in but have done them on the edges for hundreds of lots I am sure with no problems for 99% of them. If the sims can access the lot I tend to be happy however they get there.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#4 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 6:25 AM
@daisylee I've also heard the same thing, but as you said I never experienced any issues with putting them along the edge of the lot, until now. Wish it didn't bother me that much, but it does

@nitromon I'm guessing by resetting the lot you mean to replace it from another one in the bin? I've never heard of resetting lots before. Also as invisible objects go I don't think there are any.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 6:44 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsi45
@nitromon I'm guessing by resetting the lot you mean to replace it from another one in the bin? I've never heard of resetting lots before. Also as invisible objects go I don't think there are any.

And how would you know if you had invisible objects blocking sims' paths since they would be, you know, invisible? Stuck jigs and unwanted items of that nature do not always reveal themselves in Build/Buy even with the cheat codes on.

I believe he means by using NRaas MasterController to do both. Or he might have meant save a copy of the lot as it now stands to the bin, bulldoze the original, and replace it with a copy all of which will do many of the same things.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 9:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by igazor
And how would you know if you had invisible objects blocking sims' paths since they would be, you know, invisible? Stuck jigs and unwanted items of that nature do not always reveal themselves in Build/Buy even with the cheat codes on.

I believe he means by using NRaas MasterController to do both. Or he might have meant save a copy of the lot as it now stands to the bin, bulldoze the original, and replace it with a copy all of which will do many of the same things.


Yeah, I see what you mean. It's just that I don't really see how there could be objects at those specific areas since none of the lots (the original or the edited one) had any there in the first place. As about resetting the lot I'll try using MasterController since, simply replacing the lot will change nothing. *Fingers crossed*
Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#7 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 9:21 AM
I've seen this kind of pathing in those places before, and I don't think that I have edited these lots in my Sunset Valley save. Something similar can also happen around the fences at the park opposite Mirabello Plaza, especially that circling around the corner fence posts.
I am also one of those people who constantly whine about fences on lot borders and the issues they create.

But looking at the pictures I now wonder whether this has to do with the fences themselves and less their placement. The fences that are used in a default Sunset Valley are different from the ones we have available in Build Mode. The initial base game fences were not recolourable and have been replaced by World Adventures with recolourable versions. These are not default replacements but new versions, the old ones are still in the game files but hidden from the catalogue. This means that when you edit a lot that has been made with only pre-WA objects that you will inevitably replace these with the updated ones and that these might cause these issues. My additional guess is also that these old versions have never been patched to Pets compatibility while the recolourable ones have, and Pets is the EP/Patch that increased the demand that fences do not go on lot borders anymore.

As a test I would suggest to unlock the old fences with S3PE, replace the new ones with the old ones and see what happens then.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#8 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 9:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Don Babilon
I've seen this kind of pathing in those places before, and I don't think that I have edited these lots in my Sunset Valley save. Something similar can also happen around the fences at the park opposite Mirabello Plaza, especially that circling around the corner fence posts.
I am also one of those people who constantly whine about fences on lot borders and the issues they create.

But looking at the pictures I now wonder whether this has to do with the fences themselves and less their placement. The fences that are used in a default Sunset Valley are different from the ones we have available in Build Mode. The initial base game fences were not recolourable and have been replaced by World Adventures with recolourable versions. These are not default replacements but new versions, the old ones are still in the game files but hidden from the catalogue. This means that when you edit a lot that has been made with only pre-WA objects that you will inevitably replace these with the updated ones and that these might cause these issues. My additional guess is also that these old versions have never been patched to Pets compatibility while the recolourable ones have, and Pets is the EP/Patch that increased the demand that fences do not go on lot borders anymore.

As a test I would suggest to unlock the old fences with S3PE, replace the new ones with the old ones and see what happens then.


Although that does make some sense, the edited lots that I placed do actually have the non recolourable fence that came with the base game (it hasn't been replaced with the new one), so I doubt that's what's causing this. I tried playing with different fences and the only ones that seemed to work were those really short ones (that sims can walk over them.) I'll probably give it a shot eitherway since i'm really desperate to fix this.

BTW resetting the lot (using mastercontroller) unfortunately did nothing. I also tried other settings (such as resetting the different objects, repairing everything, even resetting the whole town) but still nothing.
Top Secret Researcher
#10 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 3:08 PM
In CAW, it's pretty easy to disturb the routing. From the menu, try "View"->"Show Routing Data" and then "View->"Rebuild Routing data".

Edit: I'm not trying to be rude by suggesting you forgot this, but A picture from "Show Routing Data" would have been more appropriate, so thought I'd state the obvious. I mean, look at University - Even EA forgot to rebuild the routing data.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#11 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 8:19 PM
@nitromon Alright I tried that, but the only "odd" object I found was something called rabbithole.door.jig (or something along those lines) which I deleted but once again nothing changed.That happened on both lots.

@Emmett Brown Yes I did actually try rebuilding the routing data but nothing. The routing data seems to be exactly the same as the vanilla Sunset Valley ( which i have imported the world to check and it DOES actually look the same.)
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 9:03 PM
Eh this probably won't help, but you could try resetting the front of the lots? I've had issues with sims taking ridiculous paths that were fixed by doing that, though it looks like in this case the problem is something else.
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retired moderator
#13 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 10:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simsi45
@Emmett Brown Yes I did actually try rebuilding the routing data but nothing. The routing data seems to be exactly the same as the vanilla Sunset Valley ( which i have imported the world to check and it DOES actually look the same.)

Out of interest, could you post images of the routing comparison? Would be interesting to see.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 10:56 PM
@Spamaccount Already tried it but again nothing changed

@simsample Sure thing, really not much to see though. It looks almost identical. (Pictures labeled 1 and 3 are showcasing the Vanilla SV while pics 2 and 4 the Edited SV.)
Screenshots
Mad Poster
#15 Old 13th Oct 2017 at 11:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
reset the lot, look for invisible objects.


The family home I played in one of my hoods was fine for ages and then all of the sudden bonehilda was trying to get to something and was blocked. She was motioning constantly and it was driving me nuts. I did resets/repairs. Dismissed her. Hired and fired maids. Even tore down the whole lot in that section and whatever it was never could be found. I finally decided it was time for them to move. I never could find that problem item.
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retired moderator
#16 Old 14th Oct 2017 at 8:35 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsi45
@simsample Sure thing, really not much to see though. It looks almost identical. (Pictures labeled 1 and 3 are showcasing the Vanilla SV while pics 2 and 4 the Edited SV.)

Thanks for the pictures, they do look very similar. However, there are a couple of things that I noticed. In picture #4, look at the road junction on the right- the splines have changed. As you can see, CAW doesn't really show the pedestrian routing (the path that the sims walking on the pavement/ sidewalk take). However, the change in the routing on that junction may have subtly changed the pedestrian routing along that road. Also, the texture on the shop /store has changed. Is that just a texture replacement? Did you replace or move any of the buildings themselves? The on-lot routing is not shown in CAW either, as this seems to be calculated real time so any changes to the lot routing could also affect the roadside pedestrian routes, as the preferred ingress/egress locations are altered.

Picture 2- you added a shrub, and some potted plants. Again this will change the on-lot routing, and so may be why the sims route oddly on the pavement/ sidewalk. I've noticed that changing the way the sims move through a lot will change the way they move around the lot.

Also, it's entirely possible that the changes are purely due to calculating the routing with a different game engine. I think the routing calculations have been changed a lot since release, so it's likely that putting SV into CAW and changing nothing will result in different routing, anyway. Very interesting images though, thanls for showing me.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#17 Old 14th Oct 2017 at 9:45 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
Thanks for the pictures, they do look very similar. However, there are a couple of things that I noticed. In picture #4, look at the road junction on the right- the splines have changed. As you can see, CAW doesn't really show the pedestrian routing (the path that the sims walking on the pavement/ sidewalk take). However, the change in the routing on that junction may have subtly changed the pedestrian routing along that road. Also, the texture on the shop /store has changed. Is that just a texture replacement? Did you replace or move any of the buildings themselves? The on-lot routing is not shown in CAW either, as this seems to be calculated real time so any changes to the lot routing could also affect the roadside pedestrian routes, as the preferred ingress/egress locations are altered.

Picture 2- you added a shrub, and some potted plants. Again this will change the on-lot routing, and so may be why the sims route oddly on the pavement/ sidewalk. I've noticed that changing the way the sims move through a lot will change the way they move around the lot.

Also, it's entirely possible that the changes are purely due to calculating the routing with a different game engine. I think the routing calculations have been changed a lot since release, so it's likely that putting SV into CAW and changing nothing will result in different routing, anyway. Very interesting images though, thanls for showing me.


Hmm, I didn't notice how the roads were actually different. Nice catch! As about the texture, no I didn't use any mods or replace the buildings themselves. It's just that in picture 4 the grocery store building, hadn't fully loaded when I got the screenshot (while in screenshot 3 it did) thus it uses the low lod of the mesh, so I'm guessing that's what's happening here. I also doubt the shrubs are at fault in this one (I wish they were though.) because even when using the original lot (in vanilla SV) you can easily recreate that issue by just replacing the fence that sits on the edge of the lot or by replacing the lot completely (even with an identical one) in edit town. So no additional bushes are needed. I'm afraid what you said about the routing calculations being changed is what actually what's happening here, and if that's the case I really don't think it can be resolved. I hope someone can prove me wrong.

EDIT: after testing some more, I found out the issue can be recreated JUST by simply removing the fence on the edge of the lot and clicking the undo button to make it reappear. (So no change whatsoever.) It's as if the routing is being recalculated at that moment but since routing recalculation (as a whole) has changed it's being recalculated wrong. Something I noticed though is that it seems as if the fence posts (the circled poles) are getting in the way of the routing and sims need to walk around them that's why it's creating this weird pattern. Is there a way to somehow delete them and check if that's the cause?
Screenshots
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retired moderator
#18 Old 14th Oct 2017 at 10:44 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsi45
EDIT: after testing some more, I found out the issue can be recreated JUST by simply removing the fence on the edge of the lot and clicking the undo button to make it reappear.

I guess that confirms it, then!

For the fence posts- I think they are actually co-ordinate points for what is a vectored plane. So even if it's possible to make a 'postless' fence, the co-ordinates still exist and it looks like that's what they are routing around. I'm guessing that when you delete and undo the fence, it calculates those points to the latest routing engine, which causes sims to see it as an obstruction.

ETA: Have you tried re-laying that road after the lots are in place?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#19 Old 14th Oct 2017 at 4:26 PM Last edited by simsi45 : 14th Oct 2017 at 8:52 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
I guess that confirms it, then!

For the fence posts- I think they are actually co-ordinate points for what is a vectored plane. So even if it's possible to make a 'postless' fence, the co-ordinates still exist and it looks like that's what they are routing around. I'm guessing that when you delete and undo the fence, it calculates those points to the latest routing engine, which causes sims to see it as an obstruction.

ETA: Have you tried re-laying that road after the lots are in place?


Yup. I've also tried completely deleting and placing the lots again but nothing. One other thing I tried was to move the lots one square back from the sidewalk (using the grid) rebuilding the routing data and then moving them back again without rebuilding the routing data. I thought it could work, but whenever I try to save the world with these changes the routing data apparently gets automatically rebuilt no matter what. (Btw when the routing data gets rebuilt this way, some of the white routing lines appear as grey when the routing data is being shown. Weird...)
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retired moderator
#20 Old 14th Oct 2017 at 11:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simsi45
Yup. I've also tried completely deleting and placing the lots again but nothing.

I meant to leave the lots in place, and replace the road itself. You should be able to just snap it between the two intersections. Might give you better pedestrian routing, with a bit of luck.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#22 Old 15th Oct 2017 at 10:17 AM
@simsample Well I just tried it but still nothing.

@nitromon Actually yeah, I imported it in CAW (replaced the lots, played around with it) but the issue still appears in the same areas.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#23 Old 15th Oct 2017 at 3:38 PM
So after some more testing, it seems that the issue can appear JUST by rebuilding the routing data from CAW. I imported ella's fixed Sunset Valley in CAW, rebuilt the routing data and exported the world immediately without any further edits (didn't even edit the lots themselves) and the issue appeared again. What's confusing me is that ella's fixed SV doesn't seem to have that issue so that means he/she managed to fix it before exporting the world. Is this a lost cause?
Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#24 Old 15th Oct 2017 at 3:53 PM
Well, if simsample is right then this might be because the fixed Sunset Valley is from 2011, while the routing engine's changes are probably from a later date (Pets most likely).
I dimly remember that once there was a sudden change with regard to fences, when suddenly Sims could walk over the low brick and railway fences without problems, while before the brick fence was more like a fence. And I think that this happened after installing Pets.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#25 Old 15th Oct 2017 at 4:22 PM Last edited by simsi45 : 15th Oct 2017 at 7:49 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Don Babilon
Well, if simsample is right then this might be because the fixed Sunset Valley is from 2011, while the routing engine's changes are probably from a later date (Pets most likely).
I dimly remember that once there was a sudden change with regard to fences, when suddenly Sims could walk over the low brick and railway fences without problems, while before the brick fence was more like a fence. And I think that this happened after installing Pets.


If that's true then the only way (I can think of, at least) to fix this is to patch down the game and the CAW tool (prior to the Pets expansion) edit and finish the world and then patch the game up again. Unless I patch down the game and the CAW tool and then simply import the already edited world in CAW, rebuild the data and then export it? Will that fix the broken routing?
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