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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Oct 2023 at 7:21 AM Last edited by makiura : 2nd Nov 2023 at 5:03 PM.
Default [SOLVED] 4t3 conversion hair tips affecting eyes
Hello. I am converting a half shave hairstyle from sims 4. The control is working in game, but it's also changing the sim's eyes. I used the scalp texture of a sims 3 half shave hair and set it to the base color, but I'm not sure if it is the root of the problem. This only happens when I change the hair tip color.
Screenshots
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Instructor
#2 Old 18th Oct 2023 at 11:08 PM Last edited by CardinalSims : 19th Oct 2023 at 12:17 AM.
If the TS4 textures weren't resized to the TS3 sizes, it's possible the texture is overlapping with the face overlay that contains the default eyes- as it is all rendered into one big map, as far as the game is concerned.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I've also seen this happen when I uninstall a hair that a bin sim is wearing. The note below may be more relevant in this case, sounds like a bad texture reference somewhere.

Everything needs to be 1024x1024 for hairs, or that resolution scaled (512x512, 2048x2048 etc).
If you assemble all of the parts in Delphy's Barbershop, it will also take care of all the resource links and make sure the parts are unique and tied to their meshes properly.
Test Subject
#3 Old 19th Oct 2023 at 7:42 AM
Thank you for answering, you made my day
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#4 Old 28th Oct 2023 at 3:49 AM
Quote: Originally posted by CardinalSims
If the TS4 textures weren't resized to the TS3 sizes, it's possible the texture is overlapping with the face overlay that contains the default eyes- as it is all rendered into one big map, as far as the game is concerned.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I've also seen this happen when I uninstall a hair that a bin sim is wearing. The note below may be more relevant in this case, sounds like a bad texture reference somewhere.

Everything needs to be 1024x1024 for hairs, or that resolution scaled (512x512, 2048x2048 etc).
If you assemble all of the parts in Delphy's Barbershop, it will also take care of all the resource links and make sure the parts are unique and tied to their meshes properly.

I checked and all of my textures are 2048x2048, so it might have been a meshing issue. Either way I ended up not really liking the first mesh so I converted a similar hairstyle and the textures came out fine. Here is the finished product!
Screenshots
Forum Resident
#5 Old 29th Oct 2023 at 3:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by makiura
I checked and all of my textures are 2048x2048, so it might have been a meshing issue. Either way I ended up not really liking the first mesh so I converted a similar hairstyle and the textures came out fine. Here is the finished product!


I had been watching this, to see what the fix might be. Is it possible for you to upload the old hair files? I would like to look inside to see what I can see... and possibly, @CardinalSims can look at the old file as well. Could be useful should you (or someone else) have a similar issue in the future with a 4 to 3 hair conversion.

Shiny, happy people make me puke!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#6 Old 31st Oct 2023 at 6:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by LadySmoks
I had been watching this, to see what the fix might be. Is it possible for you to upload the old hair files? I would like to look inside to see what I can see... and possibly, @CardinalSims can look at the old file as well. Could be useful should you (or someone else) have a similar issue in the future with a 4 to 3 hair conversion.

Sure! The file contains the mesh blender file, edited uv mesh blender file, the original sims 4 hair, and the TSRW save.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  ARACHNE HAIR.rar (28.31 MB, 3 downloads)
Instructor
#7 Old 1st Nov 2023 at 2:15 AM
The .wrk only opens in the newest version of TSRW and errors in the older / stable TS3 release, which is already a flag that something went wrong- not sure what exactly.
I can also see that the specular is missing.

Exporting it to a package reveals a larger issue- the textures referenced in the CASP aren't the ones in the package. Things have been renumbered destructively at some stage so that the textures the preset is looking for either don't exist or belong to another hair. That's probably the culprit of the recolour issue. It's another thing I can see but don't know the source of. Hopefully @LadySmoks TSRW know-how might recognise what causes these things to occur
Forum Resident
#8 Old 1st Nov 2023 at 5:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by makiura
Sure! The file contains the mesh blender file, edited uv mesh blender file, the original sims 4 hair, and the TSRW save.


Same as @CardinalSims, I could not open the work in the older TSRW, but did open in the newer version. I did not find the cause of hair tip color in eyes, but several other things that may help you with future hair projects.

1st being, do not reuse a custom hair as your donor. "curbs hairstyle 13 psychobilly" is an underlying hair in the work file. LODs 1, 2 and 3, and a number of unused textures that bloat the file, are from the old hair. Rather, use an EA hair from the list... preferably basegame, and NOT mid pigtails, if you intend to have morphs. Even if using an EA donor, it is a semi-tedious process to make LODs, and then replace textures in the mesh tab for each LOD. There is no "replace for all LODs button". When reusing another custom hair as donor, you must then delete the extra textures manually. @CardinalSims made a few hair tutorials that may help you.

I also looked at the mesh in Blender, but did not see anything there. I thought the spike that shoots out behind the eyes could be the cause, but it only runs behind the right eye, and both are changed in your pic. I am totally unfamiliar with what meshes from TS4 Studio will do. I pull TS4 meshes using s4pe, and convert to .obj in S4CASTools, then MTK.

I did not see any texture IDs that would interfere with the face overlay, but if you used custom eyes, there might be a conflict? Generally, textures are mapped to the part, and something set as hair (body, accy, etc) should never show on the face overlay.

I made a package to test in my game. At that point, I noticed that Plumbot was checked off. I unset that, and hat, but still had the eyes issue when changing hair tips color... with EA eyes, not custom.

My last step would be to remake the hair, using an EA donor. What did you use as the donor hair, when you made that new style? For giggles, I may pull the textures and see what happens using your mesh and textures in a new package. But bottom line is that I did not find an answer.

Shiny, happy people make me puke!
Forum Resident
#9 Old 1st Nov 2023 at 9:21 PM
So, I did have a chance to pull the textures. Made a new package, and yea, used pigtails. Not worried about morphs, and needed a donor with scalp textures. Everything was fine in CAS, and in game, so I tend to think the issue is in reusing that "curbs hairstyle 13 psychobilly" donor.

Shiny, happy people make me puke!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#10 Old 2nd Nov 2023 at 4:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by LadySmoks
So, I did have a chance to pull the textures. Made a new package, and yea, used pigtails. Not worried about morphs, and needed a donor with scalp textures. Everything was fine in CAS, and in game, so I tend to think the issue is in reusing that "curbs hairstyle 13 psychobilly" donor.

I used the hair since I wanted to use its scalp textures and I didnt plan on adding the original hair to my game. Thanks for solving the issue ! I'll probably stick to the pigtails route since I find it more convenient
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#11 Old 2nd Nov 2023 at 5:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by LadySmoks
Same as @CardinalSims, I could not open the work in the older TSRW, but did open in the newer version. I did not find the cause of hair tip color in eyes, but several other things that may help you with future hair projects.

1st being, do not reuse a custom hair as your donor. "curbs hairstyle 13 psychobilly" is an underlying hair in the work file. LODs 1, 2 and 3, and a number of unused textures that bloat the file, are from the old hair. Rather, use an EA hair from the list... preferably basegame, and NOT mid pigtails, if you intend to have morphs. Even if using an EA donor, it is a semi-tedious process to make LODs, and then replace textures in the mesh tab for each LOD. There is no "replace for all LODs button". When reusing another custom hair as donor, you must then delete the extra textures manually. @CardinalSims made a few hair tutorials that may help you.

I also looked at the mesh in Blender, but did not see anything there. I thought the spike that shoots out behind the eyes could be the cause, but it only runs behind the right eye, and both are changed in your pic. I am totally unfamiliar with what meshes from TS4 Studio will do. I pull TS4 meshes using s4pe, and convert to .obj in S4CASTools, then MTK.

I did not see any texture IDs that would interfere with the face overlay, but if you used custom eyes, there might be a conflict? Generally, textures are mapped to the part, and something set as hair (body, accy, etc) should never show on the face overlay.

I made a package to test in my game. At that point, I noticed that Plumbot was checked off. I unset that, and hat, but still had the eyes issue when changing hair tips color... with EA eyes, not custom.

My last step would be to remake the hair, using an EA donor. What did you use as the donor hair, when you made that new style? For giggles, I may pull the textures and see what happens using your mesh and textures in a new package. But bottom line is that I did not find an answer.

Yes I do use custom eye mesh. It's buhudain's eyeball override, which allows you to change the size of pupils, etc. For the new style I used a short newsea hair as the base. It's been working well for the other hairs I've converted so I haven't had any problems. Ill definitely go back and fix my other hairs l0d textures!
Forum Resident
#12 Old 2nd Nov 2023 at 5:52 PM Last edited by LadySmoks : 3rd Nov 2023 at 4:28 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by makiura
I used the hair since I wanted to use its scalp textures and I didnt plan on adding the original hair to my game. Thanks for solving the issue ! I'll probably stick to the pigtails route since I find it more convenient


I cannot speak for @CardinalSims , but I find it generally better to start with an EA base donor, and import your meshes and textures to that. This way, you do not end up with "leftovers", such as textures, and whatever it was that caused your original problem.

It is more work, but I usually open the package in s3pe, export textures I want to use, and import them to a clean donor in TSRW.

I find pigtails to be okay for short hair, but it has no morphs, and few bones, so it becomes an issue with longer hair styles. And yes, I also used pigtails in my test, because of the scalp textures. ))) CardinalSims most likely knows other ways, but when using pigtails, I have a "chip" that takes the place of the ribbons. It is one triangle that I positioned in the center of the head, and boned to headnew. I also think you can just remove that ribbon mesh in the edit contents section. I recently began experimenting with doing that.

EDIT: No, that broke the work file!!!

Not to worry about custom eyes, as I did find, the problem also showed on EA eyes. It was something in that donor. And again, check CardinalSims tutorials, and others. )))

Shiny, happy people make me puke!
Instructor
#13 Old 2nd Nov 2023 at 11:23 PM
I'd definitely recommend always using an EA clone, and one from S3OC for a cleaner clone at that (you can then open this in TSRW, but I find the inbuilt cloning methods lacking).
As @LadySmoks said, every resource from an existing hair can be exported. Cloning EA hairs is also a good way to get their resources, even if you don't use the rest of the package.

As far as my methods go, I don't actually use a 'base' hair at all. An EA clone is used purely to transfer GEOM data from if the hair is being made from scratch (as .obj) and pretty much all of them are fine for this. It does save some time to use the same one you plan to copy bones from, though.
DABOOBS / the Barbershop as I mentioned earlier assembles all of the pieces made into a brand-new hair and handles all of the resource connections at generation- which is why I swear by it so often. It skips all chances for resources to end up with mismatched numbering. It's just quite different to get the loose resources prepped than it is to work on a hair in TSRW, so it's not always a great 'fix' for someone halfway into the latter.

I'm sure my method would look more appealing if I uploaded the results of my efforts, but I've seen the modder scene here get very catty... so it doesn't bother me to keep 20+ hairs for personal use
So far, importing resources into an EA clone is only 100% necessary when making hat hair ie. hairs with two groups. Which is still kind of unsatisfying, but there was never a tool to automate it.
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