I am posting this as a starter for questions concerning using my MilkShape plugins for animation, or other questions and comments not directly related to actual testing and performance issues.
PLEASE (please) ask the how-to's and such here, and leave the testing thread clean, so it will be easier for me to monitor and update the software. It takes a lot of time to answer the questions, and threading through them at the same time I'm looking for bug reports just makes the job harder.
Of course, I don't OWN this thread. I can offer only limited support for Miche and Delphy's plugin, though. But some of the conversation can and will overlap, and when I can help I will. I invite those that have an answer to add it themselves, too. After all, none of the three of us are 'competing' for your business (if we were, we certainly got the price pared down to the 'bone' pretty quickly).
<* Wes *>

Thanks for starting this thread, Wes - and thanks to all of you for the work you've done with the mesh import/exporting tools.

I've been wondering about something, and I've never been sure where to post the question, so forgive me if this is the wrong place.

First a bit about what sort of mesh editing I do might be helpful - my main interest is in body meshes - I don't do anything elaborate, I've attached examples of a couple of my Sims1 meshes. As you can see, it amounts mainly to very simple (or no) modifications to the actual Maxis mesh, plus the addition of a few "add-ons" such as the roller skate wheels/carriage, or the pirate's sword and boot-tops.

I have Milkshape, but I realize it is unable to support the multiple assignments needed by Sims2, and I don't have access to any other 3d program that can do that. I have downloaded Blender, but that has no SMD import/export. I also have downloaded XSI ModTool, which supposedly does, but I can't find an importer/exporter plugin for that either for SMD.

So, my question is this - is it somehow possible to add a second mesh into a body mesh .package file? I noticed that the new ModTool is able to do that at the time of import, but I don't think that would help unless I am misunderstanding. I think I need to do this after-the-fact, so to speak.

To explain a bit better, I would like to be able to edit the main body mesh in the move-the-vertices-a-bit method (so as not to loose the assignments and the fit/fat capability), then put that back in the package.

Then, edit the add-ons as a completely separate mesh, assign them to their respective bones (here the 1 assignment per-vert isn't a problem, since these parts would only need to "stick" to one bone anyway) and then add this into the mesh .package as a second mesh which the game would permanentky use when it uses the body mesh. It wouldn't matter if this mesh was permanently stuck with one texture (who wants to recolor a sword anyway?)

So, is this possible? I'm not asking you guys to put this into your tools, I don't know if anybody but me would be interested in doing this, but I just want to know if I could somehow manage to do this, or if you already know that this is impossible.

I gave a passing thought the other day to deleting the thread, since it had gathered no interest yet.
All the body meshes I have seen have a single 'group' in them. When I look at the way the data is laid out for the morph data, I see no mechanism that looks like it could be specified as applicable to one particular group. What I do see in the layout is support for multiple morphs to fit a single mesh.
Also, if you look at the way .package files name and address components, you would expect the rendering software would be unlikely to do anything but continue to try to load 'bottom' or 'top' or 'body' meshes, and perhaps just ignore any other meshes in there.
Since I haven't tried what you are suggesting, this is all theory.
What I think might be more amenable to your ideas might be done with clothing meshes. While, again, a single actual group would likely be a limit, outfits can cover anything from the neck down, allow for morphs in the exact formats used for bare body meshes, wouldn't have to be confined to carefully representing 'normal' body geometry, and can be custom textured, including alpha-layers that allow 'skin' to show through where (or even if) desired.
One idea that I thought might be possible with an outfit would be a character much like 'Captain Hook'. The vertices on one hand could be rearranged to form a hook and reassigned from the fingers to the hand or forearm, one leg could be partially replaced with wood, etc. Reassigning the vertices to the hand bone would in essence make all the animations involving the fingers invisible.
All the clothing meshes I looked at (which is definitely not the entire inventory) seemed to only have a single 'fat' morph in them (maybe this is used for BOTH fat and pregnant). I have been wondering if my 2.13 plugins might not allow creations like I talked about to be made now (minus the fat morph). I started on a proof-of-concept here, but I am a pretty slow modeler, and hadn't made a lot of progress yet.
Just as a side note, some of the people over at Spiffy Sims have been here asking meshing/MilkShape questions and were helped by you, and I was reading favorable comments about your contributions to them there. Your reputation is gold there. It just goes to show that everytime you do something, the ripples extend well beyond just where you can see.
I doubt I managed to answer all your questions in one post, and definitely veered off topic a bit, as I often do. I'll check back soon to see if you have any further comments.
<* Wes *>

I was thinking about putting 2 meshes of the same name in a gmdc. Maxis does it. So if I had, say a sword model I wanted to attach to the male bottom , I would associate the vertices of that model to the pelvis and bring it only the model as 'bottom' and have 2 models called 'bottom' in the same GMDC. You shouldn't have to add anything extra to get it to work.

Sounds good, but I have not tried it. :P

Yes, actually I wasn't clear, I should have said the clothing meshes - I think of those as body meshes also, since they actually replace the entire body in the game.

And yes, the Captain Hook think you mentioned should be possible - oddly enough I did a Captain Hook for Sims1, and also a peg-leg pirate though mine were two separate meshes.

Both worked - yes, they did lose the multiple bone assignments but in Sims1 this was hardly noticable because the Sims were so tiny in the game anyway.

I was thinking of doing the same for Sims2 using your plugins, haven't started it yet though.

The modeling/skinning part isn't so difficult for me, it's the process of finding and getting the mesh out of the game that slows me down.

But, you're making it hard on yourself here, I think. Instead of trying to reshape the existing finger vertices into a hook, what I did was select the entire hand, snap them together and weld them (in other words, make the whole hand disappear), then make the hook from a couple of cylinders. Same for the peg-leg, I "chopped off" the leg, then made the wooden one from two cylinders and a sphere for the tip.

That would make it easier to texture map also.

If you want any help on the modeling part, I'm happy to do wahtever I can (even make the whole mesh if you'd rather)

==================

Fleabay, yes that is exactly what I was talking about. But I have been looking for an example of a Maxis clothing mesh that does it so I can see what they did, but I haven't found one.

I think for example the Maid's apron is put on separately because I have an "unlocked" maid uniform and no matter what I do to the texture image, the apron is always white. I tried tracing down the maid's mesh using the steps in Brianna's tutorial, but I come up with the generic woman's swimsuit mesh form that....

Can you point me to a mesh that does this?

I`ve only quickly read this thread, but if what I understand you mean is correct (ie have a seperate mesh in a body gmdc for add on objects), then though I haven`t tried it, I think it should work, as every other type of gmdc allows extra meshes to be added to them and they still work, for instance some hair meshes will have just the one standard hair mesh, while other have some extra ones which have alpha effects applied to the texture.

While the add model feature of the mesh tool wouldn`t do exactly what you wanted, as it wouldn`t make the object you add into a seperate mesh, however it will add it to the end of the vertice list of the existing mesh, so if you add a mesh from a obj file to a body mesh and then leave the "body editing" box unchecked (but make sure you have the box called "3 weights" checked) and then click add model, the resulting gmdc file will have that mesh added to the end of the body mesh but will also still have the fat/fit morphing data from the old gmdc file, and as the vertice list upto the point where the new vertices are added (ie at the end) are in the same order , it should work. (though I can`t promise it will).


edit : I`ve just tested it and it worked for me (though I only added a simple box to the front of the body.)


Dr Pixel,

you said you couldn`t find the plug-in for XSI mod tool to allow smd files, you have to download the game add on pack for Valve souce :
http://www.softimage.com/products/M...ddons_valve.asp

Then the import /export options will be in the Valve menu (which I believe is the third menu from the right).

Thanks, Miche - in fact it looks like the "add mesh" feature will do exactly what I wanted if I'm understanding correctly - I really didn't want there to be two meshes for any other reason than as to a way to overcome the loss of the fit/fat data, and the loss of the multiple bone assignments. I really would rather have just one, completely re-skinnable, mesh.

I'll have a go at it, and let you know what happens.

Miche, I tried using the "add" option in the Mesh Tool as you suggested, but haven't had any luck.

I made a simple test mesh, just a maxis body with a bracelet added on to it.
I did this as a .skd file, so I could assign the bracelet to the wrist.

I can load this into the MeshTool, and I can see it does have the bracelet added on. I then load the original GMDC, check the "3 weights" box, and click "Add", and save the3 file.

But when I put it back into the GMDC in SimPE, nothing was added, it's still just the original mesh.

I also tried clicking on "commit" before clicking "add", but that causes an error message when it tries to save.

The model does work if I check the "body editing" box, but then the multiple assignments are of course lost, and the animations in the game become blocky which is what I was trying to avoid.

I also was going to try Fleabay's idea of adding another mesh into the GMDC file, but I have no idea how to do that.

I have one more idea before I give up on this, I just realized that there are a couple of Maxis clothing meshes in the game that have 3 separate meshes and 3 separate textures on them, so I am going to attempt tracing down the parts for those to see if I can manage to figure out how they did that.

you used a SKD file? (do you mean smd file?) if so then it won`t work, the add feature will only add meshes from obj files. so you need to make the mesh into a object file , then load it and the gmdc file into the mesh tool then assign it to the subgroup you want to use (this is how you assign the vertices of a mesh in a obj file to a bone, but note the subgroup numbers aren`t the same numbers as the bones are in the smd file as the bones from a smd actually get converted to these other numbers, so you have to use the gmdc view to find the right group and for this with a body mesh you would need to have the body editing box checked) then you click commit, then make sure the body editing box is now unchecked and the "3 weights" box is checked, then click add model.

it does work (at least for simple boxes added to a body mesh) as I tested it this morning, however as you can see it isn`t that a easy process to do. I`ll try to make it easier in a future version, and maybe add a feature to allow a seperate mesh to be added to a gmdc file.

If you have anymore problems with this process could you please post to the thread for the mesh tool as I feel like we are taking over wes`s thread here and it is meant for problems with his plugins. Thanks.

[wes_h frantically raps gavel on podium] "Mr. Miche and Mr. Pixel: You have been convicted of repeatedly taking over other people's threads. This court now passes sentence, and hereby orders that you shall both taken into custody; thence to be transported to a place where you will be deprived of panty support for the remainder of..."

At that moment, wes_h snaps awake, looks around and says "I don't own this board, or this thread, and besides that, I was enjoying the conversation!"


This thread was for just this type of chat... there is another thread for plugin-related issues.
Please continue. I am listening right now, since I had nothing new to add at the moment.
<* Wes *>

you might not own the thread, but if your price for using it is going without panty support then I`m not sure many people can afford to pay that price

Okay Dr Pixel, continue with this topic here, if you want to.

Hi
I just a begginer at modding. I've create some new clothing meshes using meshtool and BriAnna tutorial but the result is not very good( in the game the new nesh don't move as thy have to). I use milkshape and try to import mesh using the plugin. If I understand well I have to reassing bones to the vertex i moved. Here is the image I get when importing the mesh. Are the bones the blue lines? I thought they would be points...It's confusing...Can you help me Thanks
Nat

Natrobo, if you go to the File menu and choose "preferences" you will get a little window for setting the options.

Click the "Misc tab" and set the joint size to around .006 or so.

The blue lines will turn into a proper representation of the skeleton.

You can also go to the "Joints" tab in MilkShape and uncheck "show skeleton" to turn it off when you don't need it.

=====================

As for the problem with the blocky animations, that is a limitation of using MilkShape. MilkShape only supports one assignment per vertice, the game requires 3 for smooth animations.

That is why I keep pestering Wes and Miche for a way to add extra add-on meshes while still retaining the original body mesh's assignments.

Because that way things that didn't need to animate (like a bracelet or wrist-watch) or things where the blocky animation wouldn't be so noticable would then be possible for MilkShape users.

Thanks Worked just fine. Now I have to find a good milkshape tutorial that will teach me how to assing vertex to bones
Thanks
Nat

If you are only moving vertices around, there is no need to assign anything. That is necessary only if you have added new parts.

If you are simply moving vertices around, you shouldn't really be using this plug-in anyway, as doing it the way Brianna describes using the original MeshTool will preserve the smooth animation data.

Anyway, here is how to assign vertices of new parts:

To assign one (or more) vertex to a bone, go to the "joints" tab

Click on what you think is the proper bone, and click "sel assigned" - all vertices assigned to that bone will turn red. Sometimes none are assigned to a certain bone, just keep going till you find the one that is closeset to your new parts.

Now hide the original body mesh on the "groups" tab, so only your new part is showing.

Then go to "select" mode, and "vertice", thaen back to the "Joints tab, make sure the proper bone is selected, drag a box around the vertices to assign to it, and click "assign" on the groups tab.

To check, unhide the body again, unselect everything, and go to the Joints tab again, select your bone again and click "sel assigned" to make sure your new vertices show up with that bone.

Thank you very much for your help.
So this isn't going to fix the mesh problem I have with the ones I create moving vertices.
Thanks anyway I'm going to try that